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hey everyone

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welcome to the u5 webcast today's guest

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is going to be terry lovelace

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he's the author of two books that tell

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an incredible abduction story

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and as always i'm going to let the

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guests get into the information and

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background

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so let's get to it hi terry how are you

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doing thanks for being on

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hi thanks for having me it's a pleasure

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to be here well terry i'm gonna let you

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get into your background

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information and uh please start out

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whenever you're ready

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oh sure yeah i uh my story begins

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actually

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the the real incident happened while i

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was active duty in the united states air

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force i enlisted in the air force

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in 1973 right out of high school

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and spent the next six years until 1979

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on active duty

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i finished finished my enlistment in

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1979

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went to school finished a degree in

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psychology

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and then went to university of michigan

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western michigan and picked up a law

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degree

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and passed the bar and then made my

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i did private practice in michigan for a

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while

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and i was then appointed as an assistant

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attorney general to the united states

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territory of american samoa

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which was a nice gig in the south

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pacific yeah

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it was nice people great people some

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people

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and from there i went to um state of

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vermont where i was state's attorney

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until i retired totally from the law in

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2012.

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so my incident happened in 1977

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my biggest incident uh like a lot of

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people i've had

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you know ongoing odd things and

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encounters

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all my life since childhood that's my

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brief bio

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well then uh let's get right into it and

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please continue from there

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sure you know i'll uh i'll start this

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where it really began and that was

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when i um in 2012 october

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2012 i'd been retired about nine months

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and i got up one morning and i realized

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i couldn't bear weight on my right

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knee and i had had my wife take me to

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the emergency

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room i get all my care from the va so i

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went to the va emergency room

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and they x-rayed my right leg

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and the technician comes out and she's a

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little confused and she takes a couple

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more

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pictures and then she takes a couple

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more pictures repositioning me

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and she said have you ever been in an

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automobile accident or something that

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would account for a piece of metal in

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your in your leg

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and i told her truthfully no i mean

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other than to skin me as a kid i've

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never i've never injured that leg

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and she said well you have an anomaly on

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your film

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and the radiologist is going to come

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down and take a look at it

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so a few minutes later this perturbed

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radiologist

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obviously not happy to be there walks in

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and you know pops my films up on a uh on

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a view box

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and i can't see them from where i'm

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sitting on the table

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and he comes over and he pokes me in the

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knee and he said well you've been in

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some kind of accident you're going to

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have a scar

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right here and he pokes me in the leg

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and i said doctor i don't have a scar

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there and he said well you have to

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and he said you know you may have

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forgotten it may have moved over the

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years as you've

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gained and lost weight but you can't

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violate the integrity of the skin

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and put something this deep into fashion

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tissue and there not be a scar

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left and i said well can you show me

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what you're talking

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about and he and he did he took the film

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and popped it up where i could see it

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and i was shocked to see uh in my lower

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leg

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on lateral to my knee uh is a square

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structure

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about the size of a fingernail and it

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has two wires attached to it

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to go run up my leg and

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those x-rays are available at

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terrylovelace.com

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and you can see them so he said this is

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definitely a manufactured structure this

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isn't

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a normal part of the human body um but

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he says i still insist that you have a

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scar

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and um i had just just gotten dressed

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and i and i got undressed we could

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examine my knee and he didn't find a

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scar because there is no scar

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and i asked him i said doctor how often

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is it that you find a foreign object

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like this in the human body and there

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not be a corresponding scar

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and he said never he said i've been a

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radiologist 23 years i've never i can't

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account for how this thing got into your

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and then he said and there's more he

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said you have another anomaly below the

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knee

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and he popped that up on the fuse box

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for me to see

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and below my knee right in the middle of

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my calf muscle

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is a collection of um

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he said it looks just like it's bone

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tissue you can tell from the x-ray film

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that it's bone tissue

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uh a collection of little bones six or

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seven of them

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they form like a floret pattern and even

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get a little dot in the middle

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and he said you know i he said well i

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have two points he said i've never seen

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bone tissue sprout in the middle of a

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muscle before

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and he said i've never seen anything

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like this

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manifest and then arrange itself in a

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so i said okay you know

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i asked i pressed him you know what what

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does this mean

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and he says it means you have a very

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unusual knee it's it's an anomaly

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so but when i saw that x-ray

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i i gotta go it took me back to 1979

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1979 when i when i got out of the air

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force i started running

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it was popular it was popular then you

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know and uh

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i tried it i liked it and i ran for the

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next 40 years

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and uh i noticed that when i ran

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every time i ran and i didn't run

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marathons or anything but i'd run a

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couple miles a day

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and i realized that this thing that i'm

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looking at

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on the x-ray film above my knee lay

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right over a spot

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that at the two-mile mark in my run

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every single time

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we'd go completely numb a spot about

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the size of a half dollar would go just

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numb kind of itchy and uh

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i had you know then i think about 1982 i

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told my family doctor about it i said

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look it's no big deal but every time i

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run this

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i got a spot here that goes completely

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numb and she kind of blew it off and

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said you know it sounds like a systemic

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reaction of some kind she said

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if it doesn't interfere with your run i

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wouldn't worry about it

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so i didn't but then here all these

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years later in 2012 i'm looking at this

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x-ray and i realized that that's right

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over that spot and you know i'm thinking

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cause and effect here

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and then my mind went to 1977

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which i'll get into and it's validation

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that

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these things have put their hands on me

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and that was hard for me to process

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and that i up until that point i had

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never intended to write a book

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or speak publicly about what happened to

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me in 1977 or at any point in my life

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for that matter but uh

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viewing those x-rays in 2012 was a

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watershed moment for me

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it was you know i i just had

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to live with this i i had to put it in

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paper i had to write it down

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and that was really the purpose of the

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exercise i thought i might you know i

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thought i'd sell 100 books and have a

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box of 50 in my garage you know

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[Music]

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but i'm i'm pleased to say i've sold you

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know

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many many copies it's been very popular

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it was number number one on and off for

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so in addition to it being cathartic for

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me

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out there

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and be honest and candid about what

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happened

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i put an email address in the back of my

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book and i said look i'm not a doctor

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i'm not a therapist

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but if you've had an experience that you

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can't tell anyone about

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that you're living with that bugs you

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and you'd like to talk to somebody

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shoot me an email i promise i'll answer

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and i promise i'll

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preserve your anonymity unless you give

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me express written permission to uh

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to use your name and your story so

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to date i've had over 1600 emails

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since march of 2018 and i've had people

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write me and tell me the most

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incredible stories as it's kind of

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interesting

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they all start the same way they all

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start with this disclaimer paragraph

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where they say

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you know please don't think i'm crazy i

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wasn't drinking when this happened i

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swear

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i don't use drugs you know that kind of

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thing they run they run through that

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laundry list

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and then they just tell me the most

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amazing stories so

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so terry just to clarify prior to you

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going to the doctor

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you had already had some experiences

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that you were aware of

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i did i did i can run through those real

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quick uh

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let's just let's let's establish that

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and then

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the connection with the doctor's visit

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would make a lot more sense

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yes i think i think it would i think it

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would

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um really i i had

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um from age four i had you know

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nightmares and um

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i had uh this

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when i was a little kid i used to see

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these four little monkeys

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in my room and uh they would appear

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they'd step out of the shadows and

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sometimes they were kind of comical and

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sometimes they were kind of scary

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and that happened multiple times over

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and i didn't connect it with i had a ufo

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experience too

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what was going on in the bedroom uh with

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the monkeys

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i was in my backyard and i was uh

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i was playing around with this bow and

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arrow

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and i looked down it was a beautiful

283
00:10:49,750 --> 00:10:48,160
saturday not a cloud in the sky and i

284
00:10:50,310 --> 00:10:49,760
looked down and i'm loading an arrow

285
00:10:52,949 --> 00:10:50,320
into the

286
00:10:53,670 --> 00:10:52,959
onto the bow and i saw this perfect

287
00:10:57,750 --> 00:10:53,680
circle

288
00:11:03,509 --> 00:11:00,949
and i instinctively looked i looked up

289
00:11:05,590 --> 00:11:03,519
and when i looked up 20 feet over my

290
00:11:08,710 --> 00:11:05,600
head here's this

291
00:11:10,870 --> 00:11:08,720
perfect circular disc

292
00:11:13,110 --> 00:11:10,880
that looks like highly polished aluminum

293
00:11:16,630 --> 00:11:13,120
or something

294
00:11:18,470 --> 00:11:16,640
and i'm just dumbfounded i'm just uh

295
00:11:21,590 --> 00:11:18,480
and i thought it was amazing i thought

296
00:11:23,509 --> 00:11:21,600
it was the coolest thing i'd ever seen

297
00:11:24,790 --> 00:11:23,519
uh and what was interesting was i mean

298
00:11:28,230 --> 00:11:24,800
it wasn't only interesting

299
00:11:29,829 --> 00:11:28,240
visually um

300
00:11:31,750 --> 00:11:29,839
you know this was a busy saturday

301
00:11:33,190 --> 00:11:31,760
afternoon in in the city and there's

302
00:11:34,949 --> 00:11:33,200
guys out cutting grass

303
00:11:37,350 --> 00:11:34,959
you know people hanging up laundry

304
00:11:39,269 --> 00:11:37,360
there's kids dogs cats cars

305
00:11:41,030 --> 00:11:39,279
you know there's a lot of activity going

306
00:11:44,069 --> 00:11:41,040
on

307
00:11:46,150 --> 00:11:44,079
thing

308
00:11:47,430 --> 00:11:46,160
there was this real distinct auditory

309
00:11:49,430 --> 00:11:47,440
change

310
00:11:51,350 --> 00:11:49,440
and it felt like i had taken my hands

311
00:11:52,550 --> 00:11:51,360
and pressed them against my ears

312
00:11:55,829 --> 00:11:52,560
almost all the sounds of the

313
00:11:58,790 --> 00:11:55,839
neighborhood were kind of muted

314
00:12:01,430 --> 00:11:58,800
i had some fine hair on my forearms and

315
00:12:03,910 --> 00:12:01,440
it was standing up

316
00:12:06,790 --> 00:12:03,920
and i i looked at this thing and i

317
00:12:08,470 --> 00:12:06,800
thought that it was uh

318
00:12:10,069 --> 00:12:08,480
i thought it was beautiful in the way

319
00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:10,079
that like a new sports car like a new

320
00:12:13,509 --> 00:12:11,920
alfa romero sports car would be on a

321
00:12:15,509 --> 00:12:13,519
showroom floor

322
00:12:18,069 --> 00:12:15,519
you know that that that that was the

323
00:12:21,670 --> 00:12:18,079
impression it gave me

324
00:12:24,310 --> 00:12:21,680
and uh i watched it for some period of

325
00:12:25,590 --> 00:12:24,320
time i'm not sure exactly how long

326
00:12:28,389 --> 00:12:25,600
and it wobbled a little bit in the

327
00:12:30,710 --> 00:12:28,399
breeze and um

328
00:12:32,150 --> 00:12:30,720
i'm looking at it and i'm trying to take

329
00:12:34,310 --> 00:12:32,160
in you know looking for there should be

330
00:12:35,350 --> 00:12:34,320
rivets there should be insignia there

331
00:12:37,030 --> 00:12:35,360
should be

332
00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:37,040
but there's nothing it's just polished

333
00:12:41,829 --> 00:12:40,160
aluminum or whatever metal it was

334
00:12:43,509 --> 00:12:41,839
and watch it for a minute or two and it

335
00:12:46,629 --> 00:12:43,519
shoots off like from

336
00:12:47,590 --> 00:12:46,639
zero to 500 miles an hour and whoosh

337
00:12:49,670 --> 00:12:47,600
it's gone

338
00:12:50,790 --> 00:12:49,680
and there's a you know hole in the sky

339
00:12:52,310 --> 00:12:50,800
where it vanishes

340
00:12:54,230 --> 00:12:52,320
i mean you know there's not a literal

341
00:12:56,389 --> 00:12:54,240
hole in the sky

342
00:12:57,590 --> 00:12:56,399
but that point where it disappeared in

343
00:12:59,110 --> 00:12:57,600
the blue sky

344
00:13:00,870 --> 00:12:59,120
you know for the next two years every

345
00:13:01,670 --> 00:13:00,880
time i went in the backyard my eyes went

346
00:13:05,110 --> 00:13:01,680
right to that

347
00:13:08,629 --> 00:13:06,710
so in that cause that caused a lot of

348
00:13:10,470 --> 00:13:08,639
trouble with my family because

349
00:13:13,350 --> 00:13:10,480
i told them i saw you know you i don't

350
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:13,360
think ufo was even a term then

351
00:13:18,150 --> 00:13:15,839
i went you know yelled for my mother and

352
00:13:20,870 --> 00:13:18,160
uh said i saw a flying saucer because

353
00:13:22,310 --> 00:13:20,880
that was the term used in a day

354
00:13:23,829 --> 00:13:22,320
and she's like to terry i don't know

355
00:13:25,670 --> 00:13:23,839
what you saw but you did not see a

356
00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:25,680
flying saucer

357
00:13:28,949 --> 00:13:27,040
and i'm thinking you know how does she

358
00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:28,959
know what i saw she wasn't there

359
00:13:32,710 --> 00:13:31,760
and i really i didn't understand why my

360
00:13:34,949 --> 00:13:32,720
parents

361
00:13:35,750 --> 00:13:34,959
would doubt would doubt my word because

362
00:13:37,350 --> 00:13:35,760
i mean i

363
00:13:39,590 --> 00:13:37,360
didn't lie i didn't make up stories i

364
00:13:42,870 --> 00:13:39,600
was a pretty straight kid

365
00:13:44,790 --> 00:13:42,880
um but they they would have none of it

366
00:13:46,230 --> 00:13:44,800
and then you know my dad comes home and

367
00:13:48,310 --> 00:13:46,240
he's like now what's all this about

368
00:13:51,750 --> 00:13:48,320
flying saucers

369
00:13:54,069 --> 00:13:51,760
and i was always correcting his grammar

370
00:13:56,629 --> 00:13:54,079
which really made him angry and i said

371
00:13:57,189 --> 00:13:56,639
no no no dad not saucers not plural just

372
00:14:00,949 --> 00:13:57,199
one

373
00:14:04,069 --> 00:14:00,959
singular and he says look you can't tell

374
00:14:05,829 --> 00:14:04,079
people you saw a flying saucer

375
00:14:07,509 --> 00:14:05,839
if you do you'll think there's something

376
00:14:08,550 --> 00:14:07,519
wrong with you

377
00:14:12,069 --> 00:14:08,560
they'll think there's something wrong

378
00:14:13,350 --> 00:14:12,079
with us and it was like ah now i get it

379
00:14:16,710 --> 00:14:13,360
now i get it it's that

380
00:14:20,310 --> 00:14:16,720
you know 1960s conformity anything

381
00:14:21,750 --> 00:14:20,320
and uh yeah i learned that uh

382
00:14:22,949 --> 00:14:21,760
if you're eight years old back then and

383
00:14:25,430 --> 00:14:22,959
you told somebody you saw a flying

384
00:14:27,829 --> 00:14:25,440
saucer it does not go well

385
00:14:30,590 --> 00:14:27,839
so i didn't tell anyone else but three

386
00:14:34,470 --> 00:14:30,600
years later when i was 11

387
00:14:35,590 --> 00:14:34,480
1966 i was asleep in the on their second

388
00:14:39,189 --> 00:14:35,600
story

389
00:14:42,230 --> 00:14:39,199
bedroom facing the street

390
00:14:45,910 --> 00:14:42,240
and it was a bitterly cold january night

391
00:14:47,750 --> 00:14:45,920
and the uh we lived in the drafty old

392
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:47,760
house with old windows

393
00:14:51,350 --> 00:14:49,920
and i saw this flood of lights coming

394
00:14:54,949 --> 00:14:51,360
through my window

395
00:14:57,350 --> 00:14:54,959
and this is 2 30 in the morning

396
00:14:58,870 --> 00:14:57,360
and i'm thinking must be a fire truck

397
00:15:00,230 --> 00:14:58,880
you know maybe it's a fire across the

398
00:15:02,150 --> 00:15:00,240
street

399
00:15:03,750 --> 00:15:02,160
so i get up and i go and i pull back

400
00:15:05,430 --> 00:15:03,760
this heavy curtain

401
00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:05,440
and then there's venetian blinds and i

402
00:15:11,590 --> 00:15:08,320
pull them up to peek out

403
00:15:11,990 --> 00:15:11,600
and here is the another flying saucer

404
00:15:14,470 --> 00:15:12,000
right then

405
00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:14,480
the same one i don't know you know but

406
00:15:17,509 --> 00:15:15,440
this time

407
00:15:19,750 --> 00:15:17,519
i i feel real fortunate i can see it

408
00:15:22,790 --> 00:15:19,760
from the top side

409
00:15:24,629 --> 00:15:22,800
and it's the same perfect disc uh

410
00:15:25,990 --> 00:15:24,639
and the lights there's a dome in the

411
00:15:28,790 --> 00:15:26,000
center where the lights

412
00:15:29,990 --> 00:15:28,800
come from and i don't know if it had

413
00:15:30,790 --> 00:15:30,000
anything to do with the temperature

414
00:15:32,710 --> 00:15:30,800
outside but

415
00:15:35,110 --> 00:15:32,720
underneath this thing is this big column

416
00:15:37,030 --> 00:15:35,120
of steam

417
00:15:39,749 --> 00:15:37,040
and the lights i the lights are so

418
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:39,759
bright that i can't look at them

419
00:15:44,949 --> 00:15:42,800
directly and

420
00:15:47,030 --> 00:15:44,959
i what i did was i took that curtain

421
00:15:47,990 --> 00:15:47,040
that drapery and i stuffed it into the

422
00:15:51,030 --> 00:15:48,000
blind

423
00:15:53,269 --> 00:15:51,040
have to hold the curt so give me a

424
00:15:56,870 --> 00:15:53,279
hands-free look at this thing

425
00:16:00,069 --> 00:15:56,880
so i look at it for a while and then

426
00:16:00,870 --> 00:16:00,079
i felt satiated i felt like oh that's

427
00:16:02,710 --> 00:16:00,880
good

428
00:16:04,310 --> 00:16:02,720
you know i felt very smug actually you

429
00:16:06,069 --> 00:16:04,320
know what i felt like i felt like

430
00:16:07,749 --> 00:16:06,079
this was confirmation that you know they

431
00:16:08,949 --> 00:16:07,759
didn't just make a wrong turn back in

432
00:16:11,189 --> 00:16:08,959
1963

433
00:16:12,069 --> 00:16:11,199
and in the in my backyard i felt like

434
00:16:16,069 --> 00:16:12,079
they came to see

435
00:16:17,350 --> 00:16:16,079
me so that that i felt kind of special

436
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:17,360
about that

437
00:16:23,110 --> 00:16:20,880
and uh i thought you know a lot of

438
00:16:24,629 --> 00:16:23,120
people spend a lifetime and never see

439
00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:24,639
anything like this and now i've seen it

440
00:16:34,629 --> 00:16:30,629
so i had 11 years after that

441
00:16:37,749 --> 00:16:34,639
of nothing happening nothing zero

442
00:16:40,629 --> 00:16:37,759
and then in 1977 i was an active duty

443
00:16:43,269 --> 00:16:40,639
nco at whiteman air force base

444
00:16:45,829 --> 00:16:43,279
in western missouri and the place is

445
00:16:47,749 --> 00:16:45,839
built up quite a bit now

446
00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:47,759
whiteman air force base is still there

447
00:16:53,829 --> 00:16:50,160
it's actually the home to the b2 bombers

448
00:16:56,550 --> 00:16:53,839
that's their home base but back when i

449
00:16:58,710 --> 00:16:56,560
was there in 1977 it was a sac base or a

450
00:17:02,389 --> 00:16:58,720
strategic air command base

451
00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:02,399
and it had b-52 bombers equipped with

452
00:17:06,470 --> 00:17:04,319
nuclear weapons and then there was a

453
00:17:08,710 --> 00:17:06,480
squadron of minutemen two

454
00:17:10,789 --> 00:17:08,720
icbm missiles spread out all over the

455
00:17:13,110 --> 00:17:10,799
countryside

456
00:17:14,710 --> 00:17:13,120
they pulled those out in 1995 because

457
00:17:16,710 --> 00:17:14,720
they're just too many people

458
00:17:18,390 --> 00:17:16,720
around just too populated in an area

459
00:17:20,390 --> 00:17:18,400
they moved them up to

460
00:17:22,470 --> 00:17:20,400
montana or wyoming or someplace a little

461
00:17:25,189 --> 00:17:22,480
more remote

462
00:17:26,230 --> 00:17:25,199
but my job i worked in the hospital

463
00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:26,240
emergency room

464
00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:28,640
on the night shift with a friend of mine

465
00:17:31,270 --> 00:17:29,520
named toby

466
00:17:32,870 --> 00:17:31,280
and we were first responders we drove an

467
00:17:34,470 --> 00:17:32,880
ambulance

468
00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:34,480
and one night about 2 am

469
00:17:38,789 --> 00:17:36,080
[Music]

470
00:17:40,310 --> 00:17:38,799
it was april toby comes to me and he

471
00:17:45,430 --> 00:17:40,320
says hey man i got an idea

472
00:17:47,110 --> 00:17:45,440
let's go camping and i'm like

473
00:17:48,950 --> 00:17:47,120
where did this come from you know i knew

474
00:17:50,710 --> 00:17:48,960
that i had never been camping in my life

475
00:17:52,310 --> 00:17:50,720
and i suspected that he had never been

476
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:52,320
camping in my life i knew he came from

477
00:17:58,710 --> 00:17:54,480
flint michigan

478
00:18:01,190 --> 00:17:58,720
and uh he says no no think about it uh

479
00:18:02,310 --> 00:18:01,200
toby was an amateur astronomer and he

480
00:18:04,230 --> 00:18:02,320
wanted to have

481
00:18:05,750 --> 00:18:04,240
go someplace where he could have a nice

482
00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:05,760
view of the night sky

483
00:18:10,470 --> 00:18:09,280
and do some stargazing and

484
00:18:13,270 --> 00:18:10,480
he knew that i was an amateur

485
00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:13,280
photographer and i had a new camera

486
00:18:17,350 --> 00:18:15,600
and unfortunately uh when you live on a

487
00:18:19,270 --> 00:18:17,360
nuclear base there's not a lot you can

488
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:19,280
do with the camera

489
00:18:23,909 --> 00:18:21,360
so i thought you know what yeah maybe

490
00:18:25,510 --> 00:18:23,919
that's not a bad idea

491
00:18:28,549 --> 00:18:25,520
and then he told me about six and a half

492
00:18:31,830 --> 00:18:28,559
hours south across the arkansas border

493
00:18:33,990 --> 00:18:31,840
and i'm like man that's a long way to go

494
00:18:35,510 --> 00:18:34,000
and uh he says yeah but you know isn't

495
00:18:36,630 --> 00:18:35,520
the road trip kind of fun isn't that

496
00:18:38,470 --> 00:18:36,640
part of it

497
00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:38,480
and i'm like yeah you know you may have

498
00:18:41,590 --> 00:18:40,080
something there let's let's go

499
00:18:43,350 --> 00:18:41,600
let's try it we'll go down there and

500
00:18:45,430 --> 00:18:43,360
spend uh we decided we go down there we

501
00:18:48,230 --> 00:18:45,440
had a four day weekend coming up in june

502
00:18:50,789 --> 00:18:48,240
we'd go down there and spend two nights

503
00:18:53,350 --> 00:18:50,799
and uh see if we like it

504
00:18:54,789 --> 00:18:53,360
so um and you know we we didn't know

505
00:18:56,470 --> 00:18:54,799
what we were doing but you know

506
00:18:58,950 --> 00:18:56,480
camping really isn't rocket science i

507
00:19:00,470 --> 00:18:58,960
mean we went to kmart we bought a 10

508
00:19:04,710 --> 00:19:00,480
tent we bought some inflatable air

509
00:19:09,430 --> 00:19:07,430
you know we did everything that we

510
00:19:10,070 --> 00:19:09,440
thought was necessary we forgot a lot of

511
00:19:13,270 --> 00:19:10,080
stuff but

512
00:19:15,510 --> 00:19:13,280
uh you know the planning was all

513
00:19:17,510 --> 00:19:15,520
was all good but when it came to the

514
00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:17,520
execution part the wheels kind of fell

515
00:19:22,150 --> 00:19:18,960
off

516
00:19:24,070 --> 00:19:22,160
you know and um i don't understand that

517
00:19:25,830 --> 00:19:24,080
because i'm not that inept he's you know

518
00:19:28,870 --> 00:19:25,840
toby wasn't that inept

519
00:19:30,710 --> 00:19:28,880
but i left uh well

520
00:19:32,070 --> 00:19:30,720
i left my camera bag on the kitchen

521
00:19:33,750 --> 00:19:32,080
table and that was

522
00:19:35,669 --> 00:19:33,760
the whole object of the exercise was to

523
00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:35,679
take this camera

524
00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:39,280
now toby had a camera but it wasn't my

525
00:19:43,510 --> 00:19:39,840
camera

526
00:19:44,230 --> 00:19:43,520
you know and i also left i had a camp

527
00:19:46,390 --> 00:19:44,240
fax

528
00:19:48,470 --> 00:19:46,400
that a neighbor had lent me along with a

529
00:19:51,990 --> 00:19:48,480
lantern and some fuel

530
00:19:53,830 --> 00:19:52,000
and i left that in my garage and

531
00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:53,840
this was just out of character for us to

532
00:19:56,150 --> 00:19:55,679
be because toby forgot a bunch of stuff

533
00:19:59,029 --> 00:19:56,160
too

534
00:19:59,590 --> 00:19:59,039
but you know be it would it was what it

535
00:20:01,190 --> 00:19:59,600
was and

536
00:20:03,510 --> 00:20:01,200
halfway down we decided well you know

537
00:20:07,350 --> 00:20:03,520
we'll you know we'll make make do

538
00:20:09,669 --> 00:20:07,360
we'll go down and check it out so

539
00:20:12,070 --> 00:20:09,679
we got to the we got to the park and it

540
00:20:12,549 --> 00:20:12,080
was decided between us that we would not

541
00:20:15,909 --> 00:20:12,559
stay

542
00:20:18,310 --> 00:20:15,919
the campground you're going to have

543
00:20:19,990 --> 00:20:18,320
people to the right and left of you

544
00:20:21,750 --> 00:20:20,000
you know and there's going to be lights

545
00:20:24,789 --> 00:20:21,760
that's going to destroy toby's

546
00:20:25,909 --> 00:20:24,799
you know plan to watch the night sky

547
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:25,919
and there's certainly not going to be

548
00:20:30,230 --> 00:20:28,000
any wildlife running around there

549
00:20:31,669 --> 00:20:30,240
so we made the decision on our on our

550
00:20:33,350 --> 00:20:31,679
first attempt at camping we're going to

551
00:20:33,990 --> 00:20:33,360
be real outdoorsmen right we're gonna go

552
00:20:36,870 --> 00:20:34,000
find our own

553
00:20:39,110 --> 00:20:36,880
spot and we're gonna do this you know

554
00:20:43,750 --> 00:20:39,120
old school and and uh

555
00:20:46,950 --> 00:20:43,760
and do it up big so we took a paved road

556
00:20:48,630 --> 00:20:46,960
away from the ranger station and toward

557
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:48,640
the northwest

558
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:52,080
and the road turned from pavement to

559
00:20:55,669 --> 00:20:53,280
gravel

560
00:20:58,149 --> 00:20:55,679
to eventually to a dirt road and we came

561
00:21:00,390 --> 00:20:58,159
to a chain across the road

562
00:21:01,990 --> 00:21:00,400
with this sternly worded sign that said

563
00:21:04,470 --> 00:21:02,000
you know no admittance keep out

564
00:21:06,310 --> 00:21:04,480
do not enter and we thought you know

565
00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:06,320
it's probably a nature preserve

566
00:21:10,310 --> 00:21:09,600
um so we stopped the car my friend

567
00:21:13,190 --> 00:21:10,320
noticed

568
00:21:14,950 --> 00:21:13,200
that from the passenger side of the car

569
00:21:16,630 --> 00:21:14,960
he could see that on the post on his

570
00:21:18,789 --> 00:21:16,640
side of the road

571
00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:18,799
they had just taken the chain and used

572
00:21:22,789 --> 00:21:20,400
the padlock

573
00:21:23,830 --> 00:21:22,799
to to lock the end around to form like

574
00:21:26,149 --> 00:21:23,840
just a noose

575
00:21:28,470 --> 00:21:26,159
and it's draped over this over this post

576
00:21:30,070 --> 00:21:28,480
on a nail

577
00:21:31,830 --> 00:21:30,080
and because i was getting ready to turn

578
00:21:32,710 --> 00:21:31,840
the car around and he's like no no no

579
00:21:35,110 --> 00:21:32,720
man i got this

580
00:21:35,990 --> 00:21:35,120
so he hops out he picks up this chain

581
00:21:37,830 --> 00:21:36,000
drops it

582
00:21:39,669 --> 00:21:37,840
chain falls to the ground and we drove

583
00:21:41,590 --> 00:21:39,679
in

584
00:21:43,029 --> 00:21:41,600
and this is the part that we didn't know

585
00:21:45,909 --> 00:21:43,039
um

586
00:21:47,990 --> 00:21:45,919
that that that area is not even in

587
00:21:50,310 --> 00:21:48,000
devil's dense state park

588
00:21:51,350 --> 00:21:50,320
it's actually fed it still is today is

589
00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:51,360
federal land

590
00:21:54,870 --> 00:21:53,280
uh managed by the bureau of land

591
00:21:58,470 --> 00:21:54,880
management

592
00:22:00,549 --> 00:21:58,480
um and deeded to someone an individual

593
00:22:01,830 --> 00:22:00,559
but the government its government-owned

594
00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:01,840
property

595
00:22:06,789 --> 00:22:04,880
belongs to the feds so for whatever

596
00:22:12,470 --> 00:22:06,799
reason

597
00:22:14,789 --> 00:22:12,480
so we drove in and there is this plateau

598
00:22:16,310 --> 00:22:14,799
in the middle of the forest the middle

599
00:22:19,830 --> 00:22:16,320
of nowhere

600
00:22:20,950 --> 00:22:19,840
and this plateau we couldn't see it from

601
00:22:23,830 --> 00:22:20,960
a distance because

602
00:22:25,669 --> 00:22:23,840
it's level with the tops of the trees in

603
00:22:27,110 --> 00:22:25,679
the surrounding forest

604
00:22:28,950 --> 00:22:27,120
so really you got to be right up on it

605
00:22:31,990 --> 00:22:28,960
to see it

606
00:22:33,990 --> 00:22:32,000
and just by happenstance you know toby

607
00:22:36,549 --> 00:22:34,000
made every right turn and left turn he

608
00:22:38,070 --> 00:22:36,559
caught he made every call correct

609
00:22:40,390 --> 00:22:38,080
and we ended up right at the base of

610
00:22:42,710 --> 00:22:40,400
this thing and found there was a road

611
00:22:44,070 --> 00:22:42,720
just just a dirt road that went straight

612
00:22:51,110 --> 00:22:44,080
up

613
00:22:53,990 --> 00:22:51,120
of us

614
00:22:55,190 --> 00:22:54,000
and it was it was just cool it was like

615
00:22:58,870 --> 00:22:55,200
the perfect place

616
00:23:02,390 --> 00:22:58,880
you know it was it was beautiful it was

617
00:23:03,669 --> 00:23:02,400
uh just full of uh grass about halfway

618
00:23:05,510 --> 00:23:03,679
up my leg

619
00:23:06,710 --> 00:23:05,520
and um you know late blooming

620
00:23:08,710 --> 00:23:06,720
wildflowers and

621
00:23:11,190 --> 00:23:08,720
uh just real real pleasant like the

622
00:23:14,230 --> 00:23:11,200
perfect place to camp

623
00:23:16,789 --> 00:23:14,240
so we set up our camp our campsite

624
00:23:18,310 --> 00:23:16,799
put the tent together did all that stuff

625
00:23:19,190 --> 00:23:18,320
went out and gathered some firewood as

626
00:23:22,470 --> 00:23:19,200
best i could

627
00:23:26,070 --> 00:23:22,480
without an axe and uh

628
00:23:27,750 --> 00:23:26,080
set up uh uh

629
00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:27,760
you know set up we set up the camp we

630
00:23:31,669 --> 00:23:29,280
went for a hike we did you know all the

631
00:23:33,590 --> 00:23:31,679
fun stuff you do when you go camping

632
00:23:36,149 --> 00:23:33,600
and i'll kind of cut forward to the to

633
00:23:39,510 --> 00:23:36,159
the to the chase but

634
00:23:42,630 --> 00:23:39,520
uh about nine o'clock that evening um

635
00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:42,640
where we are on these air mattresses

636
00:23:45,830 --> 00:23:43,600
relaxing

637
00:23:49,669 --> 00:23:45,840
and we got the campfire between us and

638
00:23:54,070 --> 00:23:52,070
and neither one of us are really i'm

639
00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:54,080
maybe a little tired from driving six

640
00:23:57,990 --> 00:23:56,400
and a half hours but i'm not sleepy

641
00:23:59,909 --> 00:23:58,000
you know i'm 22 years old i'm in the

642
00:24:01,669 --> 00:23:59,919
best shape of my life and i've worked

643
00:24:04,710 --> 00:24:01,679
the night shift for three years

644
00:24:06,870 --> 00:24:04,720
so you know this was

645
00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:06,880
was at least the afternoon for me you

646
00:24:10,710 --> 00:24:08,000
know uh

647
00:24:12,950 --> 00:24:10,720
it wasn't it shouldn't have been uh well

648
00:24:15,190 --> 00:24:12,960
i'll get into it

649
00:24:16,830 --> 00:24:15,200
so we're we're sitting there we're

650
00:24:19,110 --> 00:24:16,840
talking and there's a lull in our

651
00:24:21,350 --> 00:24:19,120
conversation and during that lull i

652
00:24:22,870 --> 00:24:21,360
noticed that the

653
00:24:24,549 --> 00:24:22,880
all the all the things in the forest

654
00:24:25,909 --> 00:24:24,559
that make noise like the crickets the

655
00:24:28,710 --> 00:24:25,919
tree frogs

656
00:24:29,590 --> 00:24:28,720
whatever they are they they were so loud

657
00:24:31,510 --> 00:24:29,600
that just

658
00:24:32,950 --> 00:24:31,520
a few minutes earlier we could barely

659
00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:32,960
hear one another

660
00:24:37,669 --> 00:24:36,320
across across this campfire and i know

661
00:24:40,310 --> 00:24:37,679
that sounds cliche

662
00:24:41,909 --> 00:24:40,320
i i know it and uh like something out of

663
00:24:44,470 --> 00:24:41,919
a movie but

664
00:24:45,269 --> 00:24:44,480
i swear to god that's what happened and

665
00:24:46,870 --> 00:24:45,279
i've since

666
00:24:49,110 --> 00:24:46,880
had other people tell me that they have

667
00:24:52,390 --> 00:24:49,120
had they've had similar experiences

668
00:24:53,990 --> 00:24:52,400
where things go quiet

669
00:24:56,950 --> 00:24:54,000
and you know it wasn't only quiet it was

670
00:24:59,909 --> 00:24:56,960
still because we had a nice breeze

671
00:25:01,990 --> 00:24:59,919
earlier in the evening and even that it

672
00:25:04,310 --> 00:25:02,000
stopped

673
00:25:06,070 --> 00:25:04,320
and it except for the crackling of the

674
00:25:07,590 --> 00:25:06,080
of the fire

675
00:25:11,510 --> 00:25:07,600
it would have been like being in a sound

676
00:25:13,269 --> 00:25:11,520
booth it was i mean it was that quiet

677
00:25:14,789 --> 00:25:13,279
so i asked my friend i said you know man

678
00:25:16,470 --> 00:25:14,799
it got awful quiet out here is this

679
00:25:17,909 --> 00:25:16,480
normal

680
00:25:19,669 --> 00:25:17,919
and he blows it off and he's like yeah

681
00:25:21,350 --> 00:25:19,679
you know look man we've been laughing

682
00:25:22,870 --> 00:25:21,360
and cutting up and making a lot of noise

683
00:25:25,350 --> 00:25:22,880
we just quieted them

684
00:25:26,230 --> 00:25:25,360
they'll be back just watch they'll be

685
00:25:31,430 --> 00:25:26,240
back

686
00:25:33,669 --> 00:25:31,440
so we're carrying on a conversation but

687
00:25:37,110 --> 00:25:33,679
you know i'm unnerved by this

688
00:25:37,990 --> 00:25:37,120
i'm disturbed by it and i i do my best

689
00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:38,000
not to show it

690
00:25:41,750 --> 00:25:40,799
and try to ignore it um had i been there

691
00:25:43,750 --> 00:25:41,760
by myself

692
00:25:44,789 --> 00:25:43,760
i'd have been gone i got in the car and

693
00:25:47,510 --> 00:25:44,799
gone and

694
00:25:49,830 --> 00:25:47,520
left but uh i didn't want to do that in

695
00:25:51,990 --> 00:25:49,840
front of toby so

696
00:25:53,830 --> 00:25:52,000
i tried my best to relax carrying on

697
00:25:56,470 --> 00:25:53,840
conversation and then my friends got his

698
00:25:57,269 --> 00:25:56,480
head turned to his left and he's looking

699
00:25:59,350 --> 00:25:57,279
at something

700
00:26:00,870 --> 00:25:59,360
and i'm like i'm about to ask him what

701
00:26:02,549 --> 00:26:00,880
he's looking at when he asks me

702
00:26:04,310 --> 00:26:02,559
he said hey terry were those lights

703
00:26:06,870 --> 00:26:04,320
there before

704
00:26:08,710 --> 00:26:06,880
and i'm like what lights because i knew

705
00:26:10,149 --> 00:26:08,720
from where we were there were no lights

706
00:26:13,350 --> 00:26:10,159
we were in a remote area

707
00:26:15,510 --> 00:26:13,360
the only light we could see was in

708
00:26:17,190 --> 00:26:15,520
on the eastern horizon there was a dim

709
00:26:20,630 --> 00:26:17,200
glow of light

710
00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:20,640
that came from the from the campgrounds

711
00:26:24,549 --> 00:26:23,760
that were a couple miles away but other

712
00:26:28,630 --> 00:26:24,559
than that there's

713
00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:28,640
nothing and i i couldn't see what he was

714
00:26:32,230 --> 00:26:30,400
talking about because his torso was in

715
00:26:34,390 --> 00:26:32,240
the way so i had to stand up

716
00:26:36,230 --> 00:26:34,400
and i took a step back and on the

717
00:26:39,830 --> 00:26:36,240
western horizon

718
00:26:41,909 --> 00:26:39,840
uh just above the horizon there were

719
00:26:43,350 --> 00:26:41,919
these three stars that made a perfect

720
00:26:46,789 --> 00:26:43,360
triangle

721
00:26:50,230 --> 00:26:46,799
and each one was as bright as the other

722
00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:50,240
and um they were they were too high

723
00:26:53,430 --> 00:26:52,080
off the horizon to have been lights like

724
00:26:55,510 --> 00:26:53,440
from a train or

725
00:26:57,029 --> 00:26:55,520
a parking lot or something highway or

726
00:26:58,390 --> 00:26:57,039
something

727
00:27:00,230 --> 00:26:58,400
and they were absolutely static they

728
00:27:04,070 --> 00:27:00,240
didn't move

729
00:27:04,710 --> 00:27:04,080
and uh i said to my friend i said you

730
00:27:06,870 --> 00:27:04,720
know

731
00:27:08,149 --> 00:27:06,880
that could be an aircraft i mean we knew

732
00:27:08,549 --> 00:27:08,159
a little bit about aircraft i didn't

733
00:27:10,149 --> 00:27:08,559
know

734
00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:10,159
any aircraft that had that kind of light

735
00:27:13,669 --> 00:27:12,320
configuration in the front

736
00:27:15,590 --> 00:27:13,679
but i said you know it could be an

737
00:27:16,870 --> 00:27:15,600
aircraft that's headed directly into our

738
00:27:18,870 --> 00:27:16,880
direction

739
00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:18,880
and until it deviates its course by a

740
00:27:21,510 --> 00:27:20,640
degree or two it's going to look like

741
00:27:24,070 --> 00:27:21,520
it's static

742
00:27:24,549 --> 00:27:24,080
because that's just the way it is it's

743
00:27:28,470 --> 00:27:24,559
just

744
00:27:30,070 --> 00:27:28,480
you know not traveling fast enough to um

745
00:27:32,149 --> 00:27:30,080
wait for it to change course and and

746
00:27:32,710 --> 00:27:32,159
then we'll see it move well it never did

747
00:27:35,269 --> 00:27:32,720
move

748
00:27:36,149 --> 00:27:35,279
well what it did was after after a

749
00:27:39,669 --> 00:27:36,159
minute or two

750
00:27:43,110 --> 00:27:39,679
it rotated and that shacked us it

751
00:27:46,070 --> 00:27:43,120
rotated about 120 degrees to the right

752
00:27:46,950 --> 00:27:46,080
and oriented itself with the base of the

753
00:27:50,630 --> 00:27:46,960
triangle

754
00:27:54,710 --> 00:27:52,630
and here's where it gets things start to

755
00:27:55,990 --> 00:27:54,720
get strange and

756
00:27:58,310 --> 00:27:56,000
you know when you see something like

757
00:27:59,909 --> 00:27:58,320
that when two people witness something

758
00:28:01,990 --> 00:27:59,919
like this

759
00:28:04,149 --> 00:28:02,000
the typical human reaction i think is to

760
00:28:07,510 --> 00:28:04,159
say man did you see what i saw

761
00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:07,520
and you know what is this thing and

762
00:28:10,630 --> 00:28:09,360
you know have that kind of dialogue

763
00:28:14,149 --> 00:28:10,640
would have been normal

764
00:28:17,750 --> 00:28:14,159
um but we didn't do that

765
00:28:20,070 --> 00:28:17,760
and uh i felt no fear whatsoever

766
00:28:22,549 --> 00:28:20,080
um as a matter of fact i felt mildly

767
00:28:26,230 --> 00:28:22,559
disinterested in the thing

768
00:28:28,230 --> 00:28:26,240
i felt um more like a participant than

769
00:28:30,389 --> 00:28:28,240
an observer

770
00:28:33,430 --> 00:28:30,399
and it was in a strange place i don't

771
00:28:36,630 --> 00:28:33,440
know how better to explain it

772
00:28:37,510 --> 00:28:36,640
and it started to move up and started an

773
00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:37,520
ascent

774
00:28:41,110 --> 00:28:40,080
and it went up in the sky and we could

775
00:28:42,549 --> 00:28:41,120
see

776
00:28:45,430 --> 00:28:42,559
because there were a trillion stars out

777
00:28:47,590 --> 00:28:45,440
that night the sky was dark blue

778
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:47,600
and the area inside this triangle was

779
00:28:50,950 --> 00:28:49,200
black

780
00:28:52,950 --> 00:28:50,960
and we noticed that as it moved through

781
00:28:56,149 --> 00:28:52,960
fields of stars they would black out for

782
00:28:58,310 --> 00:28:56,159
a moment until the thing had passed

783
00:28:59,350 --> 00:28:58,320
and then it reached what i call it you

784
00:29:01,830 --> 00:28:59,360
know a ceiling

785
00:29:04,470 --> 00:29:01,840
probably 10 000 feet i'm guessing i had

786
00:29:07,669 --> 00:29:04,480
really no point of reference but

787
00:29:10,470 --> 00:29:07,679
i think that's probably close and

788
00:29:12,070 --> 00:29:10,480
once it reached that 10 000 foot ceiling

789
00:29:15,669 --> 00:29:12,080
it leveled off

790
00:29:18,389 --> 00:29:15,679
it had been oriented to go straight up

791
00:29:20,310 --> 00:29:18,399
and now it oriented itself to be

792
00:29:23,430 --> 00:29:20,320
parallel with the with the uh

793
00:29:26,389 --> 00:29:23,440
with the earth and

794
00:29:29,029 --> 00:29:26,399
then it dipped just a few degrees and

795
00:29:31,669 --> 00:29:29,039
started like a glide plane

796
00:29:35,190 --> 00:29:31,679
and it was obvious now that this thing

797
00:29:37,430 --> 00:29:35,200
is coming straight toward our campsite

798
00:29:39,190 --> 00:29:37,440
it's still a good distance away but the

799
00:29:42,950 --> 00:29:39,200
point of the triangle

800
00:29:45,029 --> 00:29:42,960
is aimed directly at us and

801
00:29:47,029 --> 00:29:45,039
again we had no fear our reactions were

802
00:29:49,029 --> 00:29:47,039
muted

803
00:29:50,630 --> 00:29:49,039
and i think this speaks to i really do i

804
00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:50,640
think that this speaks to the level of

805
00:29:53,990 --> 00:29:52,240
influence that these things can have

806
00:29:56,230 --> 00:29:54,000
over us

807
00:29:58,389 --> 00:29:56,240
because i think we were being influenced

808
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:58,399
somehow

809
00:30:01,590 --> 00:30:00,480
and as this thing is on this glide plane

810
00:30:05,590 --> 00:30:01,600
toward us

811
00:30:08,470 --> 00:30:05,600
it did a uh a somersault type thing

812
00:30:11,350 --> 00:30:08,480
where the nose dipped down and it did a

813
00:30:14,470 --> 00:30:11,360
complete somersault and turned around

814
00:30:16,870 --> 00:30:14,480
and it did that twice and

815
00:30:18,070 --> 00:30:16,880
i had the feeling that that was done for

816
00:30:20,950 --> 00:30:18,080
our benefit

817
00:30:21,430 --> 00:30:20,960
you know it's not out of control it's

818
00:30:23,430 --> 00:30:21,440
not

819
00:30:25,430 --> 00:30:23,440
you know it's moving with intent and

820
00:30:26,789 --> 00:30:25,440
purpose

821
00:30:29,190 --> 00:30:26,799
i don't know if that's true or not but

822
00:30:31,350 --> 00:30:29,200
that's the vibe that i got from watching

823
00:30:34,149 --> 00:30:31,360
it do this thing

824
00:30:35,269 --> 00:30:34,159
and we saw it come in at the edge of the

825
00:30:37,350 --> 00:30:35,279
forest

826
00:30:38,630 --> 00:30:37,360
and it dropped down it was about five

827
00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:38,640
thousand feet over

828
00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:40,960
i'm guessing over our campsite over the

829
00:30:45,830 --> 00:30:43,200
top of this plateau

830
00:30:47,350 --> 00:30:45,840
and as it glided in absolutely silent

831
00:30:48,549 --> 00:30:47,360
never heard it never heard a single

832
00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:48,559
noise

833
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:51,360
it finally stopped uh over the top of

834
00:30:55,190 --> 00:30:53,360
this plateau

835
00:30:56,710 --> 00:30:55,200
and we're thankfully we're just off to

836
00:30:59,029 --> 00:30:56,720
the side otherwise this thing would have

837
00:31:02,149 --> 00:30:59,039
been right over our heads

838
00:31:05,509 --> 00:31:02,159
and it's enormous it's a city block

839
00:31:07,110 --> 00:31:05,519
long on each leg of the triangle

840
00:31:09,669 --> 00:31:07,120
so from our vantage point we're looking

841
00:31:13,909 --> 00:31:09,679
at this thing it's 3 000 feet above us

842
00:31:16,830 --> 00:31:13,919
over the metal and absolutely silent

843
00:31:18,310 --> 00:31:16,840
and it's as big as a walmart you know

844
00:31:21,509 --> 00:31:18,320
and

845
00:31:24,950 --> 00:31:21,519
we uh we didn't discuss it

846
00:31:25,509 --> 00:31:24,960
we didn't discuss it we uh were just

847
00:31:28,870 --> 00:31:25,519
kind of

848
00:31:31,830 --> 00:31:28,880
uh stunned i guess

849
00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:31,840
and while we're watching this thing um

850
00:31:34,950 --> 00:31:33,760
it had only been stopped for maybe a

851
00:31:37,269 --> 00:31:34,960
minute

852
00:31:38,310 --> 00:31:37,279
and it shot a light from underneath

853
00:31:40,710 --> 00:31:38,320
underneath the thing

854
00:31:42,470 --> 00:31:40,720
and dead center it shot this beam of

855
00:31:44,310 --> 00:31:42,480
white light

856
00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:44,320
and it was it was a visible beam of

857
00:31:49,990 --> 00:31:47,600
light it was it was like a

858
00:31:51,830 --> 00:31:50,000
you know like a a really bright

859
00:31:53,750 --> 00:31:51,840
flashlight cuts through fog or a

860
00:31:55,590 --> 00:31:53,760
searchlight like i'd like a nautical

861
00:31:56,310 --> 00:31:55,600
searchlight cuts through fall you see a

862
00:31:59,190 --> 00:31:56,320
column of

863
00:32:01,350 --> 00:31:59,200
white light well it had that quality to

864
00:32:04,389 --> 00:32:01,360
it but of course there was no fog

865
00:32:05,190 --> 00:32:04,399
it was just this white beam of light and

866
00:32:07,110 --> 00:32:05,200
it just

867
00:32:08,549 --> 00:32:07,120
like somebody flipped the switch and it

868
00:32:09,830 --> 00:32:08,559
came on and it landed

869
00:32:13,190 --> 00:32:09,840
dead square in the middle of our

870
00:32:17,509 --> 00:32:15,909
and i looked at toby toby looked at me

871
00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:17,519
and we looked at this thing

872
00:32:25,350 --> 00:32:21,360
and there's not a word spoken between us

873
00:32:28,870 --> 00:32:25,360
and that lasted for about 60 seconds

874
00:32:31,750 --> 00:32:28,880
and i am feeling these waves of calm

875
00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:31,760
wash over me uh it's a semi-sedated

876
00:32:38,149 --> 00:32:32,960
feeling

877
00:32:39,669 --> 00:32:38,159
uh you know very much like being um

878
00:32:41,269 --> 00:32:39,679
you know i've had some minor surgery if

879
00:32:42,789 --> 00:32:41,279
it's a major surgery but i've had some

880
00:32:44,630 --> 00:32:42,799
surgeries where

881
00:32:46,470 --> 00:32:44,640
they kind of give you a pre-anaesthetic

882
00:32:48,070 --> 00:32:46,480
before they anesthetize you they give

883
00:32:49,590 --> 00:32:48,080
you something to relax while make you

884
00:32:50,070 --> 00:32:49,600
relax and that's what i felt like i had

885
00:32:53,509 --> 00:32:50,080
i felt

886
00:32:55,190 --> 00:32:53,519
really genuinely felt sedated

887
00:32:57,110 --> 00:32:55,200
and i think my friend was in the same

888
00:32:59,590 --> 00:32:57,120
state

889
00:33:01,750 --> 00:32:59,600
so when this white light again it it

890
00:33:04,310 --> 00:33:01,760
clicks off like someone hits a switch

891
00:33:06,310 --> 00:33:04,320
and then immediately instead there came

892
00:33:08,310 --> 00:33:06,320
these this laser beam

893
00:33:10,310 --> 00:33:08,320
from the same spot we could trace it all

894
00:33:14,470 --> 00:33:10,320
the way up to the center of this thing

895
00:33:17,990 --> 00:33:14,480
in the sky and it would land

896
00:33:18,950 --> 00:33:18,000
in the campsite for some place for like

897
00:33:21,110 --> 00:33:18,960
a tenth of a second

898
00:33:22,470 --> 00:33:21,120
and then reappear in another place and

899
00:33:25,029 --> 00:33:22,480
then reappear so

900
00:33:28,389 --> 00:33:25,039
10 times a second this thing is dancing

901
00:33:31,669 --> 00:33:29,990
you know lasers were kind of a new

902
00:33:33,350 --> 00:33:31,679
concept in 1977

903
00:33:35,590 --> 00:33:33,360
i'd only seen them on television this

904
00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:35,600
first time i ever saw one in real life

905
00:33:40,789 --> 00:33:38,480
it was about the diameter of a pencil

906
00:33:42,630 --> 00:33:40,799
and it was purplish blue

907
00:33:45,430 --> 00:33:42,640
and it struck me in the chest a couple

908
00:33:48,389 --> 00:33:45,440
times i never felt a thing

909
00:33:48,789 --> 00:33:48,399
and it it seemed well didn't seem it it

910
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:48,799
hit

911
00:33:51,990 --> 00:33:50,640
everything that we brought with us it

912
00:33:56,149 --> 00:33:52,000
hit the tent the

913
00:33:59,350 --> 00:33:56,159
car um toby's backpack

914
00:34:01,190 --> 00:33:59,360
it's dropped both of us um

915
00:34:02,710 --> 00:34:01,200
and i had this feeling you know this

916
00:34:05,509 --> 00:34:02,720
thing's checking us out

917
00:34:06,950 --> 00:34:05,519
it's and uh i think that's right i think

918
00:34:11,190 --> 00:34:06,960
it was scanning us

919
00:34:12,790 --> 00:34:11,200
somehow so we

920
00:34:15,030 --> 00:34:12,800
we watched this and this goes on for

921
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:15,040
about three minutes then it shuts off

922
00:34:19,990 --> 00:34:17,760
and as soon as that shut off i

923
00:34:23,430 --> 00:34:20,000
transitioned from being sedated

924
00:34:25,750 --> 00:34:23,440
to being sleepy and suddenly

925
00:34:28,069 --> 00:34:25,760
all i wanted to do was get in that tent

926
00:34:31,510 --> 00:34:28,079
and go to sleep

927
00:34:34,470 --> 00:34:31,520
and i really didn't understand that but

928
00:34:37,270 --> 00:34:34,480
i didn't resist it either you know and

929
00:34:39,109 --> 00:34:37,280
my friend stood up and said show's over

930
00:34:40,629 --> 00:34:39,119
and he picks up his air mattress and he

931
00:34:41,510 --> 00:34:40,639
walks over and he throws it into the

932
00:34:43,909 --> 00:34:41,520
tent

933
00:34:44,790 --> 00:34:43,919
and just falls on top of it and and i'm

934
00:34:46,829 --> 00:34:44,800
right behind him

935
00:34:49,270 --> 00:34:46,839
and i i threw my air mattress into the

936
00:34:49,990 --> 00:34:49,280
tent and i didn't bother to undo my

937
00:34:51,510 --> 00:34:50,000
boots

938
00:34:53,349 --> 00:34:51,520
and that count that'll come back and

939
00:34:55,030 --> 00:34:53,359
play in a minute but

940
00:34:56,389 --> 00:34:55,040
i didn't i didn't unlace my boots or

941
00:34:59,670 --> 00:34:56,399
take them off i didn't take off

942
00:35:01,990 --> 00:34:59,680
my shirt i didn't undress in any way

943
00:35:02,870 --> 00:35:02,000
i just fell onto this plastic inflatable

944
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:02,880
air mattress

945
00:35:06,950 --> 00:35:06,240
and i was out but i don't think i was

946
00:35:09,109 --> 00:35:06,960
asleep

947
00:35:10,630 --> 00:35:09,119
i think i was unconscious and that's

948
00:35:11,589 --> 00:35:10,640
when that's when they took us they took

949
00:35:14,870 --> 00:35:11,599
us some time

950
00:35:18,310 --> 00:35:14,880
while we were in that state

951
00:35:19,750 --> 00:35:18,320
we both had we both had mechanical

952
00:35:22,310 --> 00:35:19,760
wind-up watches

953
00:35:23,910 --> 00:35:22,320
that were the standard of the day and

954
00:35:25,829 --> 00:35:23,920
but they were good watches

955
00:35:27,670 --> 00:35:25,839
they were integral to our job as being

956
00:35:30,069 --> 00:35:27,680
amts

957
00:35:31,109 --> 00:35:30,079
and my watch which was only about eight

958
00:35:34,150 --> 00:35:31,119
months old

959
00:35:37,910 --> 00:35:34,160
stopped at 2 40 and my friend's watch

960
00:35:39,190 --> 00:35:37,920
stopped at 2 41 and to my knowledge

961
00:35:40,950 --> 00:35:39,200
neither one of those watches ever

962
00:35:42,630 --> 00:35:40,960
ever worked again i wish i'd saved it

963
00:35:45,109 --> 00:35:42,640
actually i'd like to have known

964
00:35:47,430 --> 00:35:45,119
had it analyzed to find out what what

965
00:35:52,790 --> 00:35:47,440
killed it

966
00:35:59,109 --> 00:35:56,069
i'm unconscious and i wake up

967
00:36:01,270 --> 00:35:59,119
to these flashing lights uh through the

968
00:36:03,750 --> 00:36:01,280
through the canvas of the tent

969
00:36:06,630 --> 00:36:03,760
and they're just incredibly bright and

970
00:36:09,829 --> 00:36:06,640
they're at odd intervals they're not

971
00:36:11,589 --> 00:36:09,839
you know sequenced in any way

972
00:36:13,430 --> 00:36:11,599
but they're as bright as a flash bulb

973
00:36:15,829 --> 00:36:13,440
going off in your face they're just

974
00:36:17,190 --> 00:36:15,839
incredibly bright and for a millisecond

975
00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:17,200
it would light up the inside of that

976
00:36:22,630 --> 00:36:19,680
tent like crazy

977
00:36:23,510 --> 00:36:22,640
and these lights are white yellow

978
00:36:26,710 --> 00:36:23,520
orangish

979
00:36:28,710 --> 00:36:26,720
maybe green um

980
00:36:30,069 --> 00:36:28,720
and i wake up and i i realize i don't i

981
00:36:31,030 --> 00:36:30,079
don't have my wits about me i'm like

982
00:36:34,230 --> 00:36:31,040
where am i

983
00:36:35,829 --> 00:36:34,240
oh yeah i'm camping with toby and i see

984
00:36:37,750 --> 00:36:35,839
these lights and the first thing i think

985
00:36:39,990 --> 00:36:37,760
is well this is these are the overhead

986
00:36:41,510 --> 00:36:40,000
lights of a park rangers truck you know

987
00:36:42,710 --> 00:36:41,520
they're there to kick us out of the park

988
00:36:45,030 --> 00:36:42,720
right because we're there we're

989
00:36:48,390 --> 00:36:45,040
trespassing technically

990
00:36:49,910 --> 00:36:48,400
and uh so i sit up

991
00:36:51,510 --> 00:36:49,920
and when i sit up i noticed that my

992
00:36:52,870 --> 00:36:51,520
boots had been unlaced

993
00:36:54,950 --> 00:36:52,880
and they were unleashed three quarters

994
00:36:58,069 --> 00:36:54,960
of the way down

995
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:58,079
and i knew that i hadn't done that uh i

996
00:37:02,230 --> 00:36:59,920
wouldn't do that you know i mean they

997
00:37:04,150 --> 00:37:02,240
teach you to take care of your feet

998
00:37:05,270 --> 00:37:04,160
and i mean i would have gone to sleep

999
00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:05,280
with my boots off

1000
00:37:08,630 --> 00:37:06,640
or i would have gone to sleep with my

1001
00:37:09,670 --> 00:37:08,640
boots on but i wouldn't have gone to

1002
00:37:11,990 --> 00:37:09,680
sleep like that

1003
00:37:13,430 --> 00:37:12,000
i mean if you had to run for from

1004
00:37:14,390 --> 00:37:13,440
anything god forbid you're going to trip

1005
00:37:15,750 --> 00:37:14,400
on your shoelaces

1006
00:37:18,630 --> 00:37:15,760
so i mean it doesn't make sense i

1007
00:37:21,589 --> 00:37:18,640
wouldn't i wouldn't do that

1008
00:37:24,069 --> 00:37:21,599
so i'm annoyed and i have no fear yet

1009
00:37:27,430 --> 00:37:24,079
but i'm annoyed and i took my boots off

1010
00:37:31,829 --> 00:37:27,440
and my socks were on sideways

1011
00:37:34,069 --> 00:37:31,839
and that that made me curious

1012
00:37:35,430 --> 00:37:34,079
not no i wasn't afraid yet but i but i

1013
00:37:37,829 --> 00:37:35,440
was curious

1014
00:37:39,670 --> 00:37:37,839
because i knew i wouldn't do that and i

1015
00:37:41,430 --> 00:37:39,680
put them on properly

1016
00:37:43,270 --> 00:37:41,440
and put my boots back on and laced them

1017
00:37:45,990 --> 00:37:43,280
up to the top and

1018
00:37:48,069 --> 00:37:46,000
i turned my attention to my friend i

1019
00:37:49,510 --> 00:37:48,079
noticed my friend is on his knees

1020
00:37:51,750 --> 00:37:49,520
and he's fixated he's looking at

1021
00:37:53,829 --> 00:37:51,760
something out of his flap of the tent on

1022
00:37:56,230 --> 00:37:53,839
his side

1023
00:37:57,829 --> 00:37:56,240
and i asked him i said hey you know what

1024
00:38:00,069 --> 00:37:57,839
are you looking at what's out there

1025
00:38:01,910 --> 00:38:00,079
toby is is it park rangers who's out

1026
00:38:04,550 --> 00:38:01,920
there

1027
00:38:05,589 --> 00:38:04,560
and uh it was obvious to me he was a he

1028
00:38:07,349 --> 00:38:05,599
was scared

1029
00:38:09,829 --> 00:38:07,359
and in one of these flashes of white

1030
00:38:12,710 --> 00:38:09,839
light i could see tracks of tears

1031
00:38:13,349 --> 00:38:12,720
the uh that bright light illuminated his

1032
00:38:15,270 --> 00:38:13,359
um

1033
00:38:17,589 --> 00:38:15,280
the saline and the tears i think it made

1034
00:38:21,349 --> 00:38:17,599
it fluoresce against his skin

1035
00:38:22,710 --> 00:38:21,359
so that scared me kind of

1036
00:38:23,910 --> 00:38:22,720
that was the beginning of fear because i

1037
00:38:27,190 --> 00:38:23,920
couldn't imagine what would make this

1038
00:38:34,150 --> 00:38:31,349
and i asked him again what's out there

1039
00:38:36,390 --> 00:38:34,160
and he just said put his finger across

1040
00:38:39,109 --> 00:38:36,400
his lips and the universal be quiet

1041
00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:39,119
thing and said i think they're still out

1042
00:38:48,950 --> 00:38:40,560
there

1043
00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:48,960
and i think he was too upset too

1044
00:38:53,910 --> 00:38:52,320
freaked out or something so i got i'm on

1045
00:38:56,150 --> 00:38:53,920
my knees i got to

1046
00:38:57,750 --> 00:38:56,160
my tent by the side of my tent that had

1047
00:38:59,270 --> 00:38:57,760
the flap and i pulled it back and i'm

1048
00:39:01,990 --> 00:38:59,280
looking out

1049
00:39:05,670 --> 00:39:02,000
on this metal and i could see where the

1050
00:39:09,589 --> 00:39:07,910
also i need to mention here that in

1051
00:39:10,870 --> 00:39:09,599
addition to these flashing lights there

1052
00:39:13,910 --> 00:39:10,880
was a noise

1053
00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:13,920
that we hadn't heard before and this was

1054
00:39:18,069 --> 00:39:15,200
a very low

1055
00:39:19,990 --> 00:39:18,079
uh i call it a droning noise uh it was

1056
00:39:22,470 --> 00:39:20,000
very similar to if you've ever been next

1057
00:39:24,230 --> 00:39:22,480
to a large piece of industrial machinery

1058
00:39:27,109 --> 00:39:24,240
you know it makes noise but it doesn't

1059
00:39:29,030 --> 00:39:27,119
hurt your ears it's not so much loud

1060
00:39:30,870 --> 00:39:29,040
uh but it's powerful you can feel it in

1061
00:39:33,030 --> 00:39:30,880
your chest you know like

1062
00:39:35,349 --> 00:39:33,040
like a bass speaker at a concert or

1063
00:39:38,790 --> 00:39:35,359
something

1064
00:39:41,270 --> 00:39:38,800
and uh i'm thinking well you know

1065
00:39:42,150 --> 00:39:41,280
park ranger running a generator in the

1066
00:39:43,589 --> 00:39:42,160
back of his truck

1067
00:39:45,270 --> 00:39:43,599
you know i'm trying to come up with some

1068
00:39:47,589 --> 00:39:45,280
kind of logical explanation

1069
00:39:48,790 --> 00:39:47,599
and uh that didn't make any sense either

1070
00:39:51,829 --> 00:39:48,800
but

1071
00:39:54,310 --> 00:39:51,839
when i looked out onto this meadow what

1072
00:39:56,150 --> 00:39:54,320
i saw was that this thing that had been

1073
00:39:57,430 --> 00:39:56,160
three thousand feet above us when we

1074
00:40:00,310 --> 00:39:57,440
went to bed

1075
00:40:02,950 --> 00:40:00,320
had descended and it's now 30 feet over

1076
00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:07,030
so we're off to the side thankfully

1077
00:40:11,349 --> 00:40:09,359
and that's when we really got a clue

1078
00:40:14,630 --> 00:40:11,359
about how big this thing was

1079
00:40:16,390 --> 00:40:14,640
because it filled that entire metal as i

1080
00:40:20,390 --> 00:40:16,400
said it was a city block long

1081
00:40:23,030 --> 00:40:20,400
on each side but it was also deep

1082
00:40:24,550 --> 00:40:23,040
it was it was as deep as a five-story

1083
00:40:27,349 --> 00:40:24,560
building

1084
00:40:29,510 --> 00:40:27,359
and you know there's a there's a

1085
00:40:33,430 --> 00:40:29,520
gentleman named david marler

1086
00:40:35,670 --> 00:40:33,440
who has made a career in ufology out of

1087
00:40:37,910 --> 00:40:35,680
researching triangles

1088
00:40:39,670 --> 00:40:37,920
and he wrote a very good book about it

1089
00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:39,680
and in his book

1090
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:49,030
that reported in august of 1977

1091
00:40:56,150 --> 00:40:52,560
reported seeing a triangular shape ufo

1092
00:40:59,510 --> 00:40:56,160
that she described as five stories deep

1093
00:41:02,790 --> 00:40:59,520
so someone else saw the same thing

1094
00:41:05,349 --> 00:41:02,800
or something very very similar

1095
00:41:06,470 --> 00:41:05,359
this thing was matte black but it had

1096
00:41:08,390 --> 00:41:06,480
windows

1097
00:41:10,470 --> 00:41:08,400
and it had like an observation deck up

1098
00:41:14,069 --> 00:41:10,480
on top there was a glass that ran

1099
00:41:16,309 --> 00:41:14,079
the length i don't have a photograph

1100
00:41:18,309 --> 00:41:16,319
of course but i do have i did make a

1101
00:41:19,430 --> 00:41:18,319
detailed drawing of it contemporaneous

1102
00:41:22,870 --> 00:41:19,440
with the event i made

1103
00:41:24,470 --> 00:41:22,880
i made this drawing a couple days after

1104
00:41:26,309 --> 00:41:24,480
i got home

1105
00:41:27,910 --> 00:41:26,319
a notebook paper and then i carefully

1106
00:41:29,910 --> 00:41:27,920
redrew it

1107
00:41:32,150 --> 00:41:29,920
for inclusion in the book and you can

1108
00:41:35,270 --> 00:41:32,160
see that at terry lovelace.com

1109
00:41:37,030 --> 00:41:35,280
same place where my x-rays are posted

1110
00:41:39,270 --> 00:41:37,040
and it's a careful hand drawing of what

1111
00:41:44,230 --> 00:41:39,280
we saw

1112
00:41:46,950 --> 00:41:44,240
and it was uh it was disturbing

1113
00:41:48,630 --> 00:41:46,960
there are lights on each point of the

1114
00:41:50,390 --> 00:41:48,640
triangle of course we can only see two

1115
00:41:52,069 --> 00:41:50,400
points of the triangle the other one's

1116
00:41:55,589 --> 00:41:52,079
hidden from us

1117
00:41:57,589 --> 00:41:55,599
um and there is what i call

1118
00:41:59,510 --> 00:41:57,599
i call it a light bar for lack of a

1119
00:42:01,430 --> 00:41:59,520
better term there's like this light

1120
00:42:02,870 --> 00:42:01,440
fixture that runs from the very top to

1121
00:42:05,750 --> 00:42:02,880
the very bottom

1122
00:42:06,870 --> 00:42:05,760
all five stories and then there's like a

1123
00:42:09,589 --> 00:42:06,880
beam of light

1124
00:42:12,870 --> 00:42:09,599
that runs up and down that and

1125
00:42:15,750 --> 00:42:12,880
occasionally flashes

1126
00:42:17,109 --> 00:42:15,760
and that's that's what we saw that was

1127
00:42:18,630 --> 00:42:17,119
the first thing i saw

1128
00:42:20,710 --> 00:42:18,640
and that explains the bright lights

1129
00:42:23,109 --> 00:42:20,720
coming through the canvas of the tent

1130
00:42:25,270 --> 00:42:23,119
the second thing i saw was what i took

1131
00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:25,280
to be a dozen maybe 15

1132
00:42:30,870 --> 00:42:29,200
kids and i'm i'm shocked by that

1133
00:42:32,470 --> 00:42:30,880
and like toby man what are these kids

1134
00:42:35,670 --> 00:42:32,480
doing out here in the middle of nowhere

1135
00:42:39,990 --> 00:42:38,309
and he said terry man look at them those

1136
00:42:42,390 --> 00:42:40,000
ain't no little kids

1137
00:42:46,069 --> 00:42:42,400
they're not human beings don't you

1138
00:42:50,950 --> 00:42:48,790
and when he said that you know all that

1139
00:42:52,790 --> 00:42:50,960
sedated feeling that was all gone

1140
00:42:55,589 --> 00:42:52,800
and i was absolutely scared out of my

1141
00:42:57,270 --> 00:42:55,599
wits i was absolutely scared to death

1142
00:42:59,030 --> 00:42:57,280
and i was terrified that we were going

1143
00:43:00,390 --> 00:42:59,040
to cough or sneeze or do something to

1144
00:43:04,069 --> 00:43:00,400
draw their attention and they'd come

1145
00:43:08,950 --> 00:43:05,430
and i had no way of knowing that they

1146
00:43:13,030 --> 00:43:08,960
were long done with us you know

1147
00:43:15,030 --> 00:43:13,040
and in the flashes of light i could see

1148
00:43:16,950 --> 00:43:15,040
these things they're they're

1149
00:43:19,109 --> 00:43:16,960
they weren't real close so i was looking

1150
00:43:21,589 --> 00:43:19,119
at them from a distance

1151
00:43:24,309 --> 00:43:21,599
uh but they were they were typical gray

1152
00:43:25,829 --> 00:43:24,319
uh large heads spindly body

1153
00:43:27,430 --> 00:43:25,839
and they had a really distinctive gait

1154
00:43:28,870 --> 00:43:27,440
when they walked when they walked they

1155
00:43:31,270 --> 00:43:28,880
walked like their knees were kind of

1156
00:43:34,069 --> 00:43:31,280
hinged to move backward an inch or two

1157
00:43:35,510 --> 00:43:34,079
with every step so they looked like they

1158
00:43:37,820 --> 00:43:35,520
were always dragging

1159
00:43:39,270 --> 00:43:37,830
the back leg behind um

1160
00:43:41,589 --> 00:43:39,280
[Music]

1161
00:43:42,710 --> 00:43:41,599
it was just odd odd way of walking i'd

1162
00:43:45,430 --> 00:43:42,720
gate

1163
00:43:47,510 --> 00:43:45,440
and they all walked that way and they

1164
00:43:49,510 --> 00:43:47,520
were paired up in twos and threes

1165
00:43:51,190 --> 00:43:49,520
and you know they they weren't like

1166
00:43:52,630 --> 00:43:51,200
looking at the ground or searching for

1167
00:43:55,510 --> 00:43:52,640
something they were just kind of looking

1168
00:43:59,750 --> 00:43:55,520
around like tourists you know

1169
00:44:04,390 --> 00:43:59,760
and i uh i turned some light on

1170
00:44:12,470 --> 00:44:08,870
while we're watching them um

1171
00:44:17,109 --> 00:44:15,030
a beam of light from the same place

1172
00:44:20,710 --> 00:44:17,119
underneath this thing

1173
00:44:23,190 --> 00:44:20,720
again boom snaps on

1174
00:44:25,750 --> 00:44:23,200
and this is the column of white light

1175
00:44:27,589 --> 00:44:25,760
just like the one that hit our campfire

1176
00:44:29,829 --> 00:44:27,599
only this one is about 30 feet in

1177
00:44:31,910 --> 00:44:29,839
diameter

1178
00:44:35,349 --> 00:44:31,920
it's about as broad as this thing is

1179
00:44:38,790 --> 00:44:35,359
tall off of the floor of the meadow

1180
00:44:40,470 --> 00:44:38,800
and as soon as that light kicked on um

1181
00:44:42,870 --> 00:44:40,480
all of these little guys turned their

1182
00:44:45,670 --> 00:44:42,880
attention toward it

1183
00:44:46,790 --> 00:44:45,680
and uh they didn't they didn't run they

1184
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:46,800
didn't hurry

1185
00:44:51,190 --> 00:44:49,200
um but they changed direction and kind

1186
00:44:54,630 --> 00:44:51,200
of migrated

1187
00:44:57,670 --> 00:44:54,640
toward it and while we watched

1188
00:45:01,190 --> 00:44:57,680
the first two of these beings

1189
00:45:03,670 --> 00:45:01,200
stepped into this light and within about

1190
00:45:04,230 --> 00:45:03,680
20 seconds or so they just dissolved

1191
00:45:07,589 --> 00:45:04,240
they just

1192
00:45:11,430 --> 00:45:07,599
pixelated out and they were gone

1193
00:45:14,470 --> 00:45:11,440
and then as soon as they were gone

1194
00:45:15,910 --> 00:45:14,480
another two or three would step into the

1195
00:45:17,829 --> 00:45:15,920
light

1196
00:45:19,750 --> 00:45:17,839
like they were waiting and taking turns

1197
00:45:22,550 --> 00:45:19,760
and then they would pixelate out

1198
00:45:23,829 --> 00:45:22,560
and be gone too and i assume that's how

1199
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:23,839
they uh

1200
00:45:28,470 --> 00:45:25,760
how they get in and out of their their

1201
00:45:32,150 --> 00:45:29,910
and that's probably how they took us i

1202
00:45:34,630 --> 00:45:32,160
have no memory of how we got inside that

1203
00:45:38,550 --> 00:45:37,430
i do have some memory of being inside

1204
00:45:40,470 --> 00:45:38,560
the thing

1205
00:45:42,150 --> 00:45:40,480
i understand i've never had a clear

1206
00:45:44,950 --> 00:45:42,160
linear memory of what happened to us

1207
00:45:47,990 --> 00:45:44,960
over you know five or six hours but

1208
00:45:51,190 --> 00:45:48,000
i do have flashes little vignettes of

1209
00:45:52,710 --> 00:45:51,200
memories of being in that

1210
00:45:54,470 --> 00:45:52,720
and i'll share those with you if you'd

1211
00:45:56,390 --> 00:45:54,480
like in a second

1212
00:45:58,950 --> 00:45:56,400
yeah please don't i'm just letting you

1213
00:46:02,069 --> 00:45:58,960
be on the road that you are

1214
00:46:04,390 --> 00:46:02,079
yeah okay so yeah as we're watching we

1215
00:46:07,190 --> 00:46:04,400
saw the last two little guys

1216
00:46:08,470 --> 00:46:07,200
evaporating and then as soon as they

1217
00:46:10,950 --> 00:46:08,480
were gone that light

1218
00:46:12,150 --> 00:46:10,960
that was coming from underneath turns

1219
00:46:15,430 --> 00:46:12,160
off

1220
00:46:17,510 --> 00:46:15,440
and also that that droning noise that i

1221
00:46:20,230 --> 00:46:17,520
described earlier

1222
00:46:21,270 --> 00:46:20,240
that stopped abruptly and you know when

1223
00:46:22,950 --> 00:46:21,280
you hear something

1224
00:46:25,910 --> 00:46:22,960
for a long time it becomes like the

1225
00:46:29,030 --> 00:46:25,920
baseline and you don't notice it

1226
00:46:32,230 --> 00:46:29,040
and so when it shut off

1227
00:46:35,030 --> 00:46:32,240
the the quiet was really

1228
00:46:35,829 --> 00:46:35,040
was really noticeable how quiet it was

1229
00:46:40,790 --> 00:46:35,839
absent that

1230
00:46:45,190 --> 00:46:40,800
peeking out of the tent

1231
00:46:47,190 --> 00:46:45,200
and we watched this thing um

1232
00:46:48,470 --> 00:46:47,200
it changed colors on the points of the

1233
00:46:51,190 --> 00:46:48,480
triangle the lights

1234
00:46:53,109 --> 00:46:51,200
switched from flashing to running up and

1235
00:46:57,430 --> 00:46:53,119
down that light bar

1236
00:47:00,710 --> 00:46:57,440
and they switched to all white and

1237
00:47:02,630 --> 00:47:00,720
while we watched it took off and it

1238
00:47:05,349 --> 00:47:02,640
it didn't take off like a rocket ship it

1239
00:47:08,390 --> 00:47:05,359
just lifted off like a hot air balloon

1240
00:47:09,349 --> 00:47:08,400
and rose up into the sky rotated a

1241
00:47:12,230 --> 00:47:09,359
little bit

1242
00:47:13,990 --> 00:47:12,240
and just it just kept going and we saw

1243
00:47:17,589 --> 00:47:14,000
three lights and in one light

1244
00:47:20,309 --> 00:47:17,599
and then it was gone and

1245
00:47:23,190 --> 00:47:20,319
we were we were we were like you know

1246
00:47:25,829 --> 00:47:23,200
two terrified ten-year-olds in this tent

1247
00:47:26,710 --> 00:47:25,839
and i told my friend i said i i'm not

1248
00:47:28,150 --> 00:47:26,720
leaving this tent

1249
00:47:31,430 --> 00:47:28,160
you know i'm going to wait until it's

1250
00:47:33,190 --> 00:47:31,440
it's dawn i want daylight

1251
00:47:35,030 --> 00:47:33,200
because i was afraid you know i mean all

1252
00:47:37,990 --> 00:47:35,040
i had over my head was a piece of canvas

1253
00:47:39,750 --> 00:47:38,000
but i felt like it gave me cover you

1254
00:47:42,870 --> 00:47:39,760
know i felt like i'd be vulnerable

1255
00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:42,880
to run the 60 feet to the car

1256
00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:45,760
in the open and you know to this day i

1257
00:47:51,990 --> 00:47:48,000
still have a fear of open spaces

1258
00:47:54,549 --> 00:47:52,000
i guess ptsd like thing

1259
00:47:55,349 --> 00:47:54,559
will walk a mile and a half to go around

1260
00:47:58,150 --> 00:47:55,359
an area

1261
00:47:58,549 --> 00:47:58,160
rather than then cut through i just i

1262
00:48:01,829 --> 00:47:58,559
would have

1263
00:48:06,150 --> 00:48:01,839
i would just i'd have a panic attack

1264
00:48:07,430 --> 00:48:06,160
um so toby's like no man we can't we

1265
00:48:09,270 --> 00:48:07,440
don't know what time it is

1266
00:48:12,230 --> 00:48:09,280
we're not going to sit here for hours

1267
00:48:14,710 --> 00:48:12,240
let's get out of here

1268
00:48:15,990 --> 00:48:14,720
and i knew that he was right and he took

1269
00:48:19,270 --> 00:48:16,000
his flashlight

1270
00:48:21,349 --> 00:48:19,280
and i took my wallet and my keys

1271
00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:21,359
and we did the one two three go thing

1272
00:48:26,069 --> 00:48:23,040
and ran to the car

1273
00:48:27,589 --> 00:48:26,079
and hopped in and i asked him i said are

1274
00:48:29,510 --> 00:48:27,599
we are we good

1275
00:48:31,030 --> 00:48:29,520
and i hit the dome light the car started

1276
00:48:33,910 --> 00:48:31,040
right up thankfully

1277
00:48:34,790 --> 00:48:33,920
and uh he's looking under the seats in

1278
00:48:39,030 --> 00:48:34,800
the back seat

1279
00:48:42,950 --> 00:48:39,040
you know a big old 1966 chevy impala

1280
00:48:43,910 --> 00:48:42,960
and uh he looked and he says now we're

1281
00:48:48,069 --> 00:48:43,920
good

1282
00:48:50,309 --> 00:48:48,079
to drink in here

1283
00:48:51,349 --> 00:48:50,319
because i was just we were both acutely

1284
00:48:52,549 --> 00:48:51,359
dehydrated

1285
00:48:54,390 --> 00:48:52,559
we didn't know it until later when we

1286
00:48:57,829 --> 00:48:54,400
got to the hospital i mean i knew i was

1287
00:49:01,109 --> 00:48:57,839
thirstier than i'd ever been in my life

1288
00:49:03,670 --> 00:49:01,119
um so he's like no there's nothing to

1289
00:49:05,670 --> 00:49:03,680
drink and uh

1290
00:49:06,790 --> 00:49:05,680
i said can you navigate me out of here

1291
00:49:09,109 --> 00:49:06,800
at night

1292
00:49:10,230 --> 00:49:09,119
you know without breaking me breaking an

1293
00:49:11,510 --> 00:49:10,240
axle

1294
00:49:13,510 --> 00:49:11,520
because we were on some pretty rough

1295
00:49:15,109 --> 00:49:13,520
road i mean you know more more suited

1296
00:49:19,190 --> 00:49:15,119
for a range rover than a

1297
00:49:21,430 --> 00:49:19,200
66 impala he's like no i i got this

1298
00:49:22,549 --> 00:49:21,440
and you know when we drove when we went

1299
00:49:24,470 --> 00:49:22,559
on ambulance run

1300
00:49:26,230 --> 00:49:24,480
he was always the navigator because he

1301
00:49:27,270 --> 00:49:26,240
really did have an unerring sense of

1302
00:49:30,390 --> 00:49:27,280
direction

1303
00:49:30,710 --> 00:49:30,400
he could naturally tell you um you know

1304
00:49:32,309 --> 00:49:30,720
you

1305
00:49:34,630 --> 00:49:32,319
put him in a chair spin him around and

1306
00:49:37,990 --> 00:49:34,640
he'll point to the north you know

1307
00:49:38,309 --> 00:49:38,000
one of those kind of folks and he did he

1308
00:49:42,710 --> 00:49:38,319
got

1309
00:49:45,349 --> 00:49:42,720
road

1310
00:49:47,030 --> 00:49:45,359
and we we went across i saw that chain

1311
00:49:49,190 --> 00:49:47,040
laying down on the ground

1312
00:49:50,630 --> 00:49:49,200
that he had taken down and then i knew

1313
00:49:51,510 --> 00:49:50,640
we'd be all right i knew that we would

1314
00:49:55,190 --> 00:49:51,520
hit blacktop

1315
00:49:56,950 --> 00:49:55,200
soon and we did and we turned north and

1316
00:49:58,470 --> 00:49:56,960
we started our six and a half hour drive

1317
00:50:01,030 --> 00:49:58,480
home

1318
00:50:02,710 --> 00:50:01,040
and we made a pact between us and we

1319
00:50:04,630 --> 00:50:02,720
said that

1320
00:50:07,190 --> 00:50:04,640
no matter what happens we're not going

1321
00:50:09,750 --> 00:50:07,200
to tell a soul that we saw

1322
00:50:12,630 --> 00:50:09,760
this thing you know this ufo we're not

1323
00:50:14,150 --> 00:50:12,640
going to tell a soul

1324
00:50:16,870 --> 00:50:14,160
because we knew that it wouldn't go over

1325
00:50:18,230 --> 00:50:16,880
well being active duty air force

1326
00:50:20,150 --> 00:50:18,240
it's not the kind of thing you talk

1327
00:50:23,670 --> 00:50:20,160
about and

1328
00:50:25,109 --> 00:50:23,680
if we did bring it up i was genuinely

1329
00:50:27,190 --> 00:50:25,119
afraid they'd send us off for a

1330
00:50:29,030 --> 00:50:27,200
psychological evaluation

1331
00:50:30,710 --> 00:50:29,040
all kinds of bad things could flow from

1332
00:50:33,510 --> 00:50:30,720
that

1333
00:50:36,309 --> 00:50:33,520
and you know interfere we both had

1334
00:50:39,030 --> 00:50:36,319
career plans and uh

1335
00:50:40,870 --> 00:50:39,040
so we we promised that we wouldn't tell

1336
00:50:42,069 --> 00:50:40,880
a soul about the ufo we were also

1337
00:50:43,349 --> 00:50:42,079
concerned though that

1338
00:50:45,030 --> 00:50:43,359
because we wanted to be truthful we

1339
00:50:45,750 --> 00:50:45,040
wanted to be honest so we decided what

1340
00:50:48,710 --> 00:50:45,760
we'd say is

1341
00:50:50,150 --> 00:50:48,720
is that we woke up feeling really crummy

1342
00:50:51,910 --> 00:50:50,160
and uh

1343
00:50:53,670 --> 00:50:51,920
when you know went to bed not feeling

1344
00:50:54,470 --> 00:50:53,680
right and then woke up feeling really

1345
00:50:57,589 --> 00:50:54,480
sick

1346
00:51:00,710 --> 00:50:57,599
and acutely thirsty and

1347
00:51:04,790 --> 00:51:03,670
because we left we left our tent we left

1348
00:51:07,910 --> 00:51:04,800
the air mattresses

1349
00:51:11,829 --> 00:51:07,920
we left toby's nice coleman cooler

1350
00:51:14,710 --> 00:51:11,839
we left this backpack there that had

1351
00:51:18,470 --> 00:51:14,720
it had his name in it and we both lived

1352
00:51:21,190 --> 00:51:18,480
in nco family housing on the base

1353
00:51:22,790 --> 00:51:21,200
so and i'm speculating i don't know if

1354
00:51:25,109 --> 00:51:22,800
this is true or not but

1355
00:51:26,390 --> 00:51:25,119
it would make sense that the park

1356
00:51:29,990 --> 00:51:26,400
rangers probably

1357
00:51:33,190 --> 00:51:30,000
saw that that chain was down and

1358
00:51:35,670 --> 00:51:33,200
did a little bit of uh of research and

1359
00:51:37,430 --> 00:51:35,680
found our campsite

1360
00:51:39,270 --> 00:51:37,440
so i think what they did was they called

1361
00:51:41,190 --> 00:51:39,280
the base and told

1362
00:51:42,549 --> 00:51:41,200
you know information officer someone at

1363
00:51:43,910 --> 00:51:42,559
the base that

1364
00:51:45,510 --> 00:51:43,920
you know hey two of your airmen have

1365
00:51:46,790 --> 00:51:45,520
been down here and they set up a little

1366
00:51:48,950 --> 00:51:46,800
camp and it looks like they're planning

1367
00:51:50,549 --> 00:51:48,960
on coming back

1368
00:51:53,270 --> 00:51:50,559
so i guess that's a logical assumption

1369
00:51:53,990 --> 00:51:53,280
to make and we had no intention of going

1370
00:51:56,950 --> 00:51:54,000
back there

1371
00:51:57,589 --> 00:51:56,960
um did somebody actually call and and

1372
00:52:00,790 --> 00:51:57,599
said that

1373
00:52:03,030 --> 00:52:00,800
or do you think they were maybe just

1374
00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:03,040
assuming that they might do that that's

1375
00:52:07,190 --> 00:52:04,640
an assumption on my part

1376
00:52:08,069 --> 00:52:07,200
that i don't know i never did find out

1377
00:52:11,589 --> 00:52:08,079
how

1378
00:52:15,589 --> 00:52:11,599
they got involved but um

1379
00:52:19,589 --> 00:52:18,230
a policing agency called the security

1380
00:52:23,990 --> 00:52:19,599
police

1381
00:52:26,549 --> 00:52:24,000
special division called the osi

1382
00:52:27,510 --> 00:52:26,559
or the office of special investigations

1383
00:52:30,150 --> 00:52:27,520
so

1384
00:52:30,870 --> 00:52:30,160
osi is to the air force what ncis is to

1385
00:52:35,270 --> 00:52:30,880
the navy

1386
00:52:37,990 --> 00:52:35,280
it's the investigative branch and

1387
00:52:38,950 --> 00:52:38,000
when we got to the hospital um i should

1388
00:52:41,670 --> 00:52:38,960
back up

1389
00:52:42,470 --> 00:52:41,680
when we left there we were something had

1390
00:52:45,910 --> 00:52:42,480
changed

1391
00:52:47,109 --> 00:52:45,920
there like you know a couple of

1392
00:52:53,589 --> 00:52:47,119
teenagers

1393
00:52:58,390 --> 00:52:56,230
also here this guy toby has been my best

1394
00:53:01,030 --> 00:52:58,400
friend for three years we work together

1395
00:53:02,950 --> 00:53:01,040
our wives or friends you know he's got

1396
00:53:06,710 --> 00:53:02,960
two little kids that i adore

1397
00:53:08,390 --> 00:53:06,720
and uh suddenly i i didn't want anything

1398
00:53:10,630 --> 00:53:08,400
to do with the guy

1399
00:53:13,190 --> 00:53:10,640
and i could not reconcile that emotion i

1400
00:53:15,510 --> 00:53:13,200
don't know where that came from

1401
00:53:18,710 --> 00:53:15,520
and you know other than making this pact

1402
00:53:21,589 --> 00:53:18,720
not to talk about seeing a ufo

1403
00:53:22,630 --> 00:53:21,599
we had we had no conversation and that's

1404
00:53:25,030 --> 00:53:22,640
just not

1405
00:53:26,630 --> 00:53:25,040
that not right i mean it's continuing

1406
00:53:27,109 --> 00:53:26,640
your story but i wanted to ask that do

1407
00:53:30,150 --> 00:53:27,119
you feel

1408
00:53:34,630 --> 00:53:30,160
about you the same way

1409
00:53:37,510 --> 00:53:34,640
i i don't know i don't know because um

1410
00:53:40,230 --> 00:53:37,520
well i'll tell you i ran i i did see him

1411
00:53:42,150 --> 00:53:40,240
i'll i'll get to that

1412
00:53:43,750 --> 00:53:42,160
we were both genuinely uncomfortable

1413
00:53:45,910 --> 00:53:43,760
with each other's company

1414
00:53:47,750 --> 00:53:45,920
and again i think that speaks to the

1415
00:53:50,069 --> 00:53:47,760
influence of these things

1416
00:53:52,470 --> 00:53:50,079
you know if you read ray fowler's famous

1417
00:53:54,470 --> 00:53:52,480
book uh about the allagash incident in

1418
00:53:57,750 --> 00:53:54,480
1973

1419
00:53:58,630 --> 00:53:57,760
it talks about uh the twins david or jim

1420
00:54:00,870 --> 00:53:58,640
and jack

1421
00:54:02,230 --> 00:54:00,880
winer and then two other guys i can't

1422
00:54:04,069 --> 00:54:02,240
remember their names but the four of

1423
00:54:05,750 --> 00:54:04,079
them went on a fishing trip

1424
00:54:07,109 --> 00:54:05,760
and they were like you know like a band

1425
00:54:08,470 --> 00:54:07,119
of brothers you know these four guys

1426
00:54:10,309 --> 00:54:08,480
they hung out together they

1427
00:54:12,309 --> 00:54:10,319
went fishing together they did all the

1428
00:54:17,349 --> 00:54:12,319
stuff together and after they had their

1429
00:54:22,470 --> 00:54:19,670
they all went their separate ways even

1430
00:54:25,910 --> 00:54:22,480
the twins weren't as close

1431
00:54:28,549 --> 00:54:25,920
so there's a guy named robert hastings

1432
00:54:30,069 --> 00:54:28,559
he uh about 20 years ago wrote a book

1433
00:54:34,069 --> 00:54:30,079
called

1434
00:54:37,109 --> 00:54:34,079
ufos and nukes and he made a

1435
00:54:38,789 --> 00:54:37,119
a career out of interviewing people that

1436
00:54:41,910 --> 00:54:38,799
were active duty military

1437
00:54:42,470 --> 00:54:41,920
on bases and had encounters uh has

1438
00:54:45,990 --> 00:54:42,480
talked to

1439
00:54:47,750 --> 00:54:46,000
thousands of people and he told me he

1440
00:54:51,030 --> 00:54:47,760
said that that

1441
00:54:53,349 --> 00:54:51,040
that emotion where you

1442
00:54:54,069 --> 00:54:53,359
suddenly want nothing to do with your

1443
00:54:57,510 --> 00:54:54,079
witness

1444
00:55:01,430 --> 00:54:57,520
you know is not unusual at all he said

1445
00:55:04,309 --> 00:55:01,440
it happens all the time i don't know

1446
00:55:05,910 --> 00:55:04,319
so on this ride back home we like i said

1447
00:55:07,670 --> 00:55:05,920
it was just awkward we really didn't

1448
00:55:10,549 --> 00:55:07,680
talk

1449
00:55:12,150 --> 00:55:10,559
and he was sick i mean i felt i felt

1450
00:55:14,150 --> 00:55:12,160
terrible

1451
00:55:15,750 --> 00:55:14,160
and i know whatever they did to me they

1452
00:55:16,390 --> 00:55:15,760
gave him a double dose because he was

1453
00:55:20,549 --> 00:55:16,400
really

1454
00:55:24,549 --> 00:55:20,559
ill and we were acutely dehydrated

1455
00:55:26,390 --> 00:55:24,559
and i was seriously burned um

1456
00:55:28,549 --> 00:55:26,400
toby was african-american so he didn't

1457
00:55:31,270 --> 00:55:28,559
burn but he was burnt

1458
00:55:33,190 --> 00:55:31,280
uh you know he was hurting he feel that

1459
00:55:36,549 --> 00:55:33,200
he'd been burned

1460
00:55:37,190 --> 00:55:36,559
and i was i was just red all over my

1461
00:55:40,630 --> 00:55:37,200
body

1462
00:55:43,750 --> 00:55:40,640
i mean the soles of my feet were red um

1463
00:55:45,430 --> 00:55:43,760
my scalp i mean everywhere i'm red and i

1464
00:55:46,870 --> 00:55:45,440
never took my shirt off never took my

1465
00:55:51,829 --> 00:55:46,880
pants off

1466
00:55:53,829 --> 00:55:51,839
um but i'm burned all over and uh

1467
00:55:56,069 --> 00:55:53,839
our wives took us to the hospital when

1468
00:55:57,430 --> 00:55:56,079
we got to the hospital they split us up

1469
00:55:59,190 --> 00:55:57,440
and they put us in two separate

1470
00:56:01,510 --> 00:55:59,200
treatment rooms

1471
00:56:03,109 --> 00:56:01,520
so i'm in one treatment room and toby's

1472
00:56:05,349 --> 00:56:03,119
in the other

1473
00:56:06,470 --> 00:56:05,359
and this doctor gives me i had two

1474
00:56:08,470 --> 00:56:06,480
doctors actually

1475
00:56:09,829 --> 00:56:08,480
uh and remember we worked for the

1476
00:56:11,430 --> 00:56:09,839
hospital squadron so

1477
00:56:13,510 --> 00:56:11,440
we knew all these people they're you

1478
00:56:14,950 --> 00:56:13,520
know friends of ours

1479
00:56:17,030 --> 00:56:14,960
and the doctor's like you know why

1480
00:56:19,829 --> 00:56:17,040
didn't you put on you know

1481
00:56:20,470 --> 00:56:19,839
some you know um some kind of sunscreen

1482
00:56:22,309 --> 00:56:20,480
or something

1483
00:56:24,230 --> 00:56:22,319
and you know how did how did you get

1484
00:56:26,549 --> 00:56:24,240
burned like this

1485
00:56:28,710 --> 00:56:26,559
and i'm like doc i never took my never

1486
00:56:31,589 --> 00:56:28,720
took my boots my shirt off my pants off

1487
00:56:35,190 --> 00:56:31,599
i have no idea

1488
00:56:38,309 --> 00:56:35,200
and uh yeah it was weird

1489
00:56:40,150 --> 00:56:38,319
he um we were admitted we were both

1490
00:56:42,630 --> 00:56:40,160
admitted but we were in separate rooms

1491
00:56:47,190 --> 00:56:42,640
we were in private rooms

1492
00:56:49,270 --> 00:56:47,200
and uh i had i suffered uh

1493
00:56:51,349 --> 00:56:49,280
what they call flash burns it's the same

1494
00:56:52,549 --> 00:56:51,359
kind of burn an arc welder would get if

1495
00:56:53,829 --> 00:56:52,559
they didn't wear that hood

1496
00:56:56,870 --> 00:56:53,839
over their face while they're while

1497
00:56:59,670 --> 00:56:56,880
they're welding and what it is is it's a

1498
00:57:01,190 --> 00:56:59,680
it's a sunburn to the cornea of your eye

1499
00:57:03,030 --> 00:57:01,200
and it's very painful feels like you

1500
00:57:04,789 --> 00:57:03,040
have sand in your eyes

1501
00:57:06,390 --> 00:57:04,799
and it also makes you photophobic where

1502
00:57:09,430 --> 00:57:06,400
the you know

1503
00:57:11,430 --> 00:57:09,440
the sunshine the light just kills you

1504
00:57:13,829 --> 00:57:11,440
it's just terrible

1505
00:57:15,589 --> 00:57:13,839
and um that was that was difficult to

1506
00:57:17,270 --> 00:57:15,599
manage with this drive home

1507
00:57:19,510 --> 00:57:17,280
because we were on the road for about an

1508
00:57:23,190 --> 00:57:19,520
hour and the sun comes up

1509
00:57:24,789 --> 00:57:23,200
and um you know i didn't i think i had a

1510
00:57:26,630 --> 00:57:24,799
cheap pair of sunglasses but i mean i

1511
00:57:31,109 --> 00:57:26,640
didn't have anything though

1512
00:57:34,630 --> 00:57:33,829
so the doctor is wrapping up his exam of

1513
00:57:36,150 --> 00:57:34,640
me

1514
00:57:38,230 --> 00:57:36,160
and four people walked into the

1515
00:57:38,870 --> 00:57:38,240
treatment room it was the hospital

1516
00:57:41,990 --> 00:57:38,880
commander

1517
00:57:44,950 --> 00:57:42,000
who i knew very well it was the

1518
00:57:47,349 --> 00:57:44,960
base commander who i knew of but never

1519
00:57:50,710 --> 00:57:47,359
had or never had a conversation with

1520
00:57:53,589 --> 00:57:50,720
and then two guys in civilian clothes

1521
00:57:55,030 --> 00:57:53,599
that i didn't recognize so the four of

1522
00:57:57,670 --> 00:57:55,040
them walked in and the only one that

1523
00:57:59,829 --> 00:57:57,680
spoke was the hospital commander

1524
00:58:02,470 --> 00:57:59,839
and he was very formal and he said

1525
00:58:05,030 --> 00:58:02,480
sergeant lovely sure to have no contact

1526
00:58:05,589 --> 00:58:05,040
with sergeant tobias in any way shape or

1527
00:58:08,470 --> 00:58:05,599
form

1528
00:58:10,230 --> 00:58:08,480
he says not verbally not by telephone

1529
00:58:11,750 --> 00:58:10,240
you're not to give him anything he's not

1530
00:58:13,109 --> 00:58:11,760
to give you anything

1531
00:58:15,109 --> 00:58:13,119
you're not to communicate through a

1532
00:58:17,109 --> 00:58:15,119
third party you're not the right letters

1533
00:58:19,589 --> 00:58:17,119
to one another

1534
00:58:21,109 --> 00:58:19,599
and on and on and on you know if you run

1535
00:58:22,549 --> 00:58:21,119
into him at the dry cleaners you're to

1536
00:58:24,309 --> 00:58:22,559
immediately turn around and walk in the

1537
00:58:27,990 --> 00:58:24,319
opposite direction

1538
00:58:30,470 --> 00:58:28,000
um just on and on and and he says

1539
00:58:32,069 --> 00:58:30,480
and if you disobey this order sergeant

1540
00:58:33,910 --> 00:58:32,079
there will be consequences do you

1541
00:58:37,109 --> 00:58:33,920
understand me

1542
00:58:38,870 --> 00:58:37,119
and i said yes sir because well i

1543
00:58:42,470 --> 00:58:38,880
understood consequences

1544
00:58:45,910 --> 00:58:42,480
uh you know but but the reasoning behind

1545
00:58:48,630 --> 00:58:45,920
the order i really didn't understand but

1546
00:58:50,630 --> 00:58:48,640
i was in a place where you know i didn't

1547
00:58:53,190 --> 00:58:50,640
want to see the guy anyway so

1548
00:58:54,630 --> 00:58:53,200
it it was kind of just it was all right

1549
00:58:57,349 --> 00:58:54,640
you know

1550
00:58:58,390 --> 00:58:57,359
was that to be supposed to be for as

1551
00:59:01,109 --> 00:58:58,400
long as you were

1552
00:59:01,990 --> 00:59:01,119
in the military or how how long was that

1553
00:59:04,390 --> 00:59:02,000
supposed to

1554
00:59:05,589 --> 00:59:04,400
you know it was open yeah it was

1555
00:59:08,630 --> 00:59:05,599
open-ended

1556
00:59:10,069 --> 00:59:08,640
so what they did was they cut orders for

1557
00:59:12,630 --> 00:59:10,079
toby to go to japan

1558
00:59:14,230 --> 00:59:12,640
at light speed i mean he was gone in a

1559
00:59:16,230 --> 00:59:14,240
matter of weeks

1560
00:59:19,109 --> 00:59:16,240
and they took me out of the emergency

1561
00:59:20,150 --> 00:59:19,119
room and reassigned me to a to a supply

1562
00:59:21,589 --> 00:59:20,160
squadron

1563
00:59:23,750 --> 00:59:21,599
where they had no need for a trained

1564
00:59:25,510 --> 00:59:23,760
medic you know

1565
00:59:26,789 --> 00:59:25,520
and they had me just doing busy work

1566
00:59:29,190 --> 00:59:26,799
over there until

1567
00:59:30,309 --> 00:59:29,200
toby was finally off the base and then i

1568
00:59:33,270 --> 00:59:30,319
could go back and work

1569
00:59:35,030 --> 00:59:33,280
work in the hospital so they did

1570
00:59:36,789 --> 00:59:35,040
everything to keep us apart

1571
00:59:38,069 --> 00:59:36,799
and we lived four blocks from one

1572
00:59:41,589 --> 00:59:38,079
another

1573
00:59:45,109 --> 00:59:41,599
so um i get home

1574
00:59:49,510 --> 00:59:45,119
and i'm i'm trying to process all this

1575
00:59:53,030 --> 00:59:49,520
because it's a it's a traumatic event

1576
00:59:54,630 --> 00:59:53,040
and i'm i'm thinking that maybe i need

1577
00:59:56,870 --> 00:59:54,640
to talk to toby

1578
00:59:58,309 --> 00:59:56,880
you know maybe talking to him i can make

1579
01:00:01,589 --> 00:59:58,319
some sense out of this

1580
01:00:03,750 --> 01:00:01,599
and get uh you know it's a word closure

1581
01:00:07,030 --> 01:00:03,760
i guess

1582
01:00:08,710 --> 01:00:07,040
find some kind of peace so we're coming

1583
01:00:09,030 --> 01:00:08,720
home from the grocery store and i asked

1584
01:00:13,349 --> 01:00:09,040
my

1585
01:00:17,589 --> 01:00:13,359
i want to run inside and just

1586
01:00:19,109 --> 01:00:17,599
tell toby bye and she says

1587
01:00:21,270 --> 01:00:19,119
you you know you're gonna disobey an

1588
01:00:22,549 --> 01:00:21,280
order you know you're gonna you're gonna

1589
01:00:25,109 --> 01:00:22,559
she says i wouldn't mess with these

1590
01:00:26,710 --> 01:00:25,119
people you know the consequences don't

1591
01:00:28,069 --> 01:00:26,720
sound good to me you know don't mess

1592
01:00:29,510 --> 01:00:28,079
with them

1593
01:00:31,270 --> 01:00:29,520
and i said look you know this is

1594
01:00:32,390 --> 01:00:31,280
something i need to do and i'll be in

1595
01:00:35,190 --> 01:00:32,400
there four minutes

1596
01:00:36,630 --> 01:00:35,200
and nothing will happen no need to worry

1597
01:00:38,150 --> 01:00:36,640
so

1598
01:00:40,230 --> 01:00:38,160
she was reluctant but she stopped the

1599
01:00:42,549 --> 01:00:40,240
car i jumped out

1600
01:00:44,870 --> 01:00:42,559
i ran up to the door and it's the same

1601
01:00:47,829 --> 01:00:44,880
door i've walked through a hundred times

1602
01:00:49,190 --> 01:00:47,839
and i did what i always did i i knocked

1603
01:00:51,030 --> 01:00:49,200
three times real loud and

1604
01:00:52,230 --> 01:00:51,040
opened the door it was always unlocked

1605
01:00:55,990 --> 01:00:52,240
and i yelled

1606
01:01:00,710 --> 01:00:56,000
hey guys it's me and i stepped in

1607
01:01:02,950 --> 01:01:00,720
and they were packing for their move and

1608
01:01:03,990 --> 01:01:02,960
toby's wife walked past me and she gave

1609
01:01:05,430 --> 01:01:04,000
me a hard look

1610
01:01:07,910 --> 01:01:05,440
and she said you're not supposed to be

1611
01:01:09,750 --> 01:01:07,920
here and i said i know

1612
01:01:11,829 --> 01:01:09,760
i know i'm not here for a confrontation

1613
01:01:13,190 --> 01:01:11,839
with anybody i just you know you guys

1614
01:01:16,710 --> 01:01:13,200
are friends i just wanted to tell you

1615
01:01:18,710 --> 01:01:16,720
goodbye i hear you're going to japan

1616
01:01:20,470 --> 01:01:18,720
and she just kept walking but toby i

1617
01:01:22,230 --> 01:01:20,480
think heard our exchange and he comes

1618
01:01:24,870 --> 01:01:22,240
around the corner and down the hallway

1619
01:01:29,990 --> 01:01:24,880
from the bedroom

1620
01:01:32,710 --> 01:01:30,000
and i would describe hope toby was just

1621
01:01:35,190 --> 01:01:32,720
really careful about his appearance he

1622
01:01:37,589 --> 01:01:35,200
was just impeccably dressed always

1623
01:01:38,470 --> 01:01:37,599
you know he always had a starched

1624
01:01:40,309 --> 01:01:38,480
uniform

1625
01:01:42,470 --> 01:01:40,319
always had a shoe shined always had his

1626
01:01:45,910 --> 01:01:42,480
hair cut within regs

1627
01:01:47,349 --> 01:01:45,920
and you know it's always clean shaving

1628
01:01:49,190 --> 01:01:47,359
you know i was kind of the slob of the

1629
01:01:52,309 --> 01:01:49,200
duo but but he was

1630
01:01:53,829 --> 01:01:52,319
he he was he was known for

1631
01:01:56,230 --> 01:01:53,839
for being meticulous about his

1632
01:01:57,190 --> 01:01:56,240
appearance and when he walked out of the

1633
01:01:59,670 --> 01:01:57,200
bedroom

1634
01:02:01,750 --> 01:01:59,680
um he was just he was a train wreck i

1635
01:02:03,029 --> 01:02:01,760
mean his hair was all sideways he hadn't

1636
01:02:05,750 --> 01:02:03,039
shaved

1637
01:02:08,390 --> 01:02:05,760
and he was wearing a dirty t-shirt dirty

1638
01:02:09,670 --> 01:02:08,400
blue jeans and was barefoot

1639
01:02:11,430 --> 01:02:09,680
and i'm thinking well you know cut the

1640
01:02:15,190 --> 01:02:11,440
guy some slack he is moving

1641
01:02:19,750 --> 01:02:18,470
but you know seeing him again was not

1642
01:02:24,549 --> 01:02:19,760
what i thought it would be

1643
01:02:26,870 --> 01:02:24,559
it was awkward it felt uncomfortable um

1644
01:02:28,390 --> 01:02:26,880
and i and i looked at him and i said i

1645
01:02:29,829 --> 01:02:28,400
hear you guys are going to japan i just

1646
01:02:30,470 --> 01:02:29,839
want to say it's been a pleasure to work

1647
01:02:32,390 --> 01:02:30,480
with you and

1648
01:02:35,190 --> 01:02:32,400
and i wish you well i thought it would

1649
01:02:38,710 --> 01:02:35,200
be appropriate to embrace the guy

1650
01:02:39,589 --> 01:02:38,720
um but i didn't and instead i held out

1651
01:02:41,670 --> 01:02:39,599
my hand

1652
01:02:43,510 --> 01:02:41,680
at the same time he held out his and we

1653
01:02:46,549 --> 01:02:43,520
kind of missed and we managed this

1654
01:02:49,750 --> 01:02:46,559
an elegant kind of handshake

1655
01:02:51,670 --> 01:02:49,760
and uh he was about six inches shorter

1656
01:02:53,750 --> 01:02:51,680
than i am

1657
01:02:57,029 --> 01:02:53,760
and he looked up at me and he said it

1658
01:03:00,069 --> 01:02:58,630
and i said yes my brother it really

1659
01:03:02,950 --> 01:03:00,079
happened you're not you're not losing

1660
01:03:07,910 --> 01:03:02,960
your mind

1661
01:03:11,510 --> 01:03:07,920
and then he said yeah but why us

1662
01:03:14,829 --> 01:03:11,520
and i felt stunned by that question

1663
01:03:18,870 --> 01:03:14,839
and i said man i don't have a expletive

1664
01:03:20,309 --> 01:03:18,880
clue and i felt panicked and i turned

1665
01:03:23,750 --> 01:03:20,319
and i ran out of the house

1666
01:03:24,309 --> 01:03:23,760
ran back to the car and you know i could

1667
01:03:27,190 --> 01:03:24,319
feel my

1668
01:03:29,510 --> 01:03:27,200
my heart pounding and i felt like i was

1669
01:03:31,510 --> 01:03:29,520
having a panic attack

1670
01:03:33,910 --> 01:03:31,520
it was not it was not it was not what i

1671
01:03:37,029 --> 01:03:33,920
expected it to be i expected it to be

1672
01:03:40,230 --> 01:03:37,039
the opposite and uh but it is what it is

1673
01:03:43,430 --> 01:03:40,240
so so we went home

1674
01:03:47,990 --> 01:03:46,309
i uh i want to go back to my

1675
01:03:49,990 --> 01:03:48,000
hospitalization

1676
01:03:52,069 --> 01:03:50,000
because something happened in there that

1677
01:03:54,870 --> 01:03:52,079
that i think this

1678
01:03:56,710 --> 01:03:54,880
really speaks to the fact that i don't

1679
01:03:59,670 --> 01:03:56,720
know how they knew

1680
01:04:01,910 --> 01:03:59,680
but they knew and they knew we saw

1681
01:04:05,349 --> 01:04:01,920
something they knew they knew it

1682
01:04:06,470 --> 01:04:05,359
um i'm in the hospital i was there three

1683
01:04:11,270 --> 01:04:06,480
nights

1684
01:04:13,750 --> 01:04:11,280
is my second night i know i'm going home

1685
01:04:15,670 --> 01:04:13,760
the next day

1686
01:04:18,230 --> 01:04:15,680
and it's about nine o'clock p.m and they

1687
01:04:21,029 --> 01:04:18,240
keep the lights turned out in the room

1688
01:04:22,390 --> 01:04:21,039
as much as they can because my my burns

1689
01:04:23,990 --> 01:04:22,400
to my eyes are healing

1690
01:04:27,190 --> 01:04:24,000
you know put saving them every four

1691
01:04:29,510 --> 01:04:27,200
hours and um

1692
01:04:31,670 --> 01:04:29,520
my night nurse walks in and i knew her

1693
01:04:32,710 --> 01:04:31,680
very well

1694
01:04:35,510 --> 01:04:32,720
and she was going to give me an

1695
01:04:37,910 --> 01:04:35,520
injection for sleep and

1696
01:04:40,789 --> 01:04:37,920
two guys in blue business suits followed

1697
01:04:42,950 --> 01:04:40,799
her into the room

1698
01:04:43,990 --> 01:04:42,960
and one was about 50 and the other was

1699
01:04:47,829 --> 01:04:44,000
like in his tall

1700
01:04:50,950 --> 01:04:47,839
lanky kind of in his 30s and

1701
01:04:52,870 --> 01:04:50,960
the older guy did all the talking

1702
01:04:54,549 --> 01:04:52,880
and he said to this nurse if that's

1703
01:04:56,230 --> 01:04:54,559
going to sedate sergeant lovelace that's

1704
01:04:59,349 --> 01:04:56,240
going to have to wait

1705
01:05:02,710 --> 01:04:59,359
we need to ask him some questions

1706
01:05:04,950 --> 01:05:02,720
so she's like you know and then

1707
01:05:06,230 --> 01:05:04,960
they flash their badges and then he did

1708
01:05:09,270 --> 01:05:06,240
something rude he said

1709
01:05:11,510 --> 01:05:09,280
and shut the door on your way out

1710
01:05:12,950 --> 01:05:11,520
and i i i didn't really understand the

1711
01:05:15,670 --> 01:05:12,960
reason for that

1712
01:05:17,829 --> 01:05:15,680
um but you know i did work for a time as

1713
01:05:19,190 --> 01:05:17,839
as a as a felony criminal prosecuting

1714
01:05:20,549 --> 01:05:19,200
attorney

1715
01:05:22,390 --> 01:05:20,559
so i knew a little bit about police

1716
01:05:22,870 --> 01:05:22,400
interrogation i didn't know it back then

1717
01:05:25,109 --> 01:05:22,880
but

1718
01:05:27,910 --> 01:05:25,119
today i know it for what it probably was

1719
01:05:31,190 --> 01:05:27,920
and that was probably a bit of theater

1720
01:05:31,910 --> 01:05:31,200
uh done just to intimidate me and they

1721
01:05:34,950 --> 01:05:31,920
succeeded

1722
01:05:36,549 --> 01:05:34,960
because i was thoroughly intimidated so

1723
01:05:37,990 --> 01:05:36,559
they show me their credentials the older

1724
01:05:41,270 --> 01:05:38,000
guy is a major

1725
01:05:43,270 --> 01:05:41,280
and the younger guy is a captain

1726
01:05:44,789 --> 01:05:43,280
and they pulled a chair up right next to

1727
01:05:46,150 --> 01:05:44,799
the head of my bed

1728
01:05:47,670 --> 01:05:46,160
and now i'm scared because you know what

1729
01:05:49,589 --> 01:05:47,680
i'm thinking i'm thinking you know we

1730
01:05:49,990 --> 01:05:49,599
didn't make sure that the campfire was

1731
01:05:52,309 --> 01:05:50,000
out

1732
01:05:53,990 --> 01:05:52,319
you know we didn't douse it with water

1733
01:05:56,069 --> 01:05:54,000
before we left

1734
01:05:57,430 --> 01:05:56,079
and what if we burned the forest down

1735
01:05:59,109 --> 01:05:57,440
and that was my first thought was

1736
01:06:00,549 --> 01:05:59,119
they're here to you know arrest us for

1737
01:06:04,069 --> 01:06:00,559
you know burning down rust me for

1738
01:06:07,190 --> 01:06:04,079
burning down a forest um

1739
01:06:08,950 --> 01:06:07,200
but he sits down and he uh the older guy

1740
01:06:10,789 --> 01:06:08,960
reads me my rights under the uniform

1741
01:06:15,029 --> 01:06:10,799
code of military justice

1742
01:06:17,029 --> 01:06:15,039
uh and that scared me uh similar to the

1743
01:06:18,549 --> 01:06:17,039
civilian rights that everyone knows

1744
01:06:19,990 --> 01:06:18,559
right to remain silent you know right to

1745
01:06:23,430 --> 01:06:20,000
have counsel

1746
01:06:25,029 --> 01:06:23,440
that kind of thing and uh reach me my

1747
01:06:27,670 --> 01:06:25,039
rights

1748
01:06:28,870 --> 01:06:27,680
and then he says you've always had a

1749
01:06:30,950 --> 01:06:28,880
little camp

1750
01:06:33,349 --> 01:06:30,960
set up down there and it looks like it

1751
01:06:35,349 --> 01:06:33,359
you know you planned on coming back

1752
01:06:36,390 --> 01:06:35,359
uh you know what do you got going on

1753
01:06:38,150 --> 01:06:36,400
down there you guys got a little

1754
01:06:39,670 --> 01:06:38,160
marijuana plot down there is that what

1755
01:06:40,870 --> 01:06:39,680
this is about

1756
01:06:43,029 --> 01:06:40,880
now that kind of that sounds kind of

1757
01:06:44,870 --> 01:06:43,039
comical today but man i got to tell you

1758
01:06:47,190 --> 01:06:44,880
in 1977

1759
01:06:48,150 --> 01:06:47,200
had we been growing marijuana on federal

1760
01:06:49,990 --> 01:06:48,160
land

1761
01:06:51,029 --> 01:06:50,000
you know that would have been a big deal

1762
01:06:52,230 --> 01:06:51,039
that would have been that would have

1763
01:06:53,750 --> 01:06:52,240
been a ticket to

1764
01:06:55,670 --> 01:06:53,760
leavenworth penitentiary that would have

1765
01:06:58,710 --> 01:06:55,680
been bad news

1766
01:07:00,069 --> 01:06:58,720
um and i said no no sir no sir i don't

1767
01:07:01,670 --> 01:07:00,079
we don't have any marijuana don't grow

1768
01:07:03,670 --> 01:07:01,680
any marijuana

1769
01:07:04,950 --> 01:07:03,680
uh and he said well then if you don't

1770
01:07:06,069 --> 01:07:04,960
have any marijuana you wouldn't mind if

1771
01:07:07,589 --> 01:07:06,079
we took a look would you

1772
01:07:09,670 --> 01:07:07,599
i mean just took a peek in your car just

1773
01:07:11,510 --> 01:07:09,680
to settle the matter

1774
01:07:13,109 --> 01:07:11,520
and i knew i had nothing contraband i

1775
01:07:14,390 --> 01:07:13,119
know i didn't have anything illegal

1776
01:07:18,309 --> 01:07:14,400
unlawful

1777
01:07:20,470 --> 01:07:18,319
and i said

1778
01:07:22,150 --> 01:07:20,480
sure i guess so he pulled out some

1779
01:07:24,549 --> 01:07:22,160
consent forms and he laid them out for

1780
01:07:27,349 --> 01:07:24,559
me there were four forms

1781
01:07:28,870 --> 01:07:27,359
and i can't see he turns the overhead

1782
01:07:30,630 --> 01:07:28,880
lights on and i'm like sir could you

1783
01:07:33,270 --> 01:07:30,640
turn those off and my eyes really hurt

1784
01:07:35,510 --> 01:07:33,280
they're all sensitive to the light

1785
01:07:37,270 --> 01:07:35,520
and he said can't work in the dark here

1786
01:07:38,950 --> 01:07:37,280
son got to see what we're doing

1787
01:07:40,710 --> 01:07:38,960
and he puts a pen in my hand it's a sign

1788
01:07:42,710 --> 01:07:40,720
here sign here sign here

1789
01:07:44,309 --> 01:07:42,720
i'm scared to death i'm 22. i don't have

1790
01:07:45,510 --> 01:07:44,319
the benefit of life experience i

1791
01:07:46,630 --> 01:07:45,520
certainly don't have the benefit of a

1792
01:07:50,069 --> 01:07:46,640
law degree

1793
01:07:51,510 --> 01:07:50,079
so you know i i signed and uh

1794
01:07:53,190 --> 01:07:51,520
yeah you know i think like a lot of

1795
01:07:54,230 --> 01:07:53,200
people accused of crime that they didn't

1796
01:07:58,069 --> 01:07:54,240
commit

1797
01:07:59,670 --> 01:07:58,079
i thought if i objected or

1798
01:08:01,589 --> 01:07:59,680
i thought if i didn't play along i'd

1799
01:08:03,190 --> 01:08:01,599
look guilty you know

1800
01:08:06,309 --> 01:08:03,200
and that's that's really not the way it

1801
01:08:07,910 --> 01:08:06,319
should be you know you have rights

1802
01:08:10,549 --> 01:08:07,920
and you should exercise them if you're

1803
01:08:12,309 --> 01:08:10,559
ever in that situation and

1804
01:08:13,990 --> 01:08:12,319
but i waived all my rights and i gave

1805
01:08:16,870 --> 01:08:14,000
them the consent to search my car

1806
01:08:18,630 --> 01:08:16,880
and search my house and they they did

1807
01:08:23,110 --> 01:08:18,640
they scared the hell out of my wife

1808
01:08:26,309 --> 01:08:23,120
and went to my home and searched my home

1809
01:08:27,990 --> 01:08:26,319
they seized my wife had a camera

1810
01:08:30,550 --> 01:08:28,000
and they seized the film out of the

1811
01:08:31,269 --> 01:08:30,560
camera and it was little 35 millimeter

1812
01:08:35,189 --> 01:08:31,279
camera

1813
01:08:39,669 --> 01:08:37,189
and then i had a dark room set up where

1814
01:08:43,510 --> 01:08:39,679
i develop black and white prints

1815
01:08:45,669 --> 01:08:43,520
it's my hobby but because

1816
01:08:47,829 --> 01:08:45,679
i'm on a nuclear base i really can't

1817
01:08:49,669 --> 01:08:47,839
walk around with this camera

1818
01:08:51,669 --> 01:08:49,679
but i had a tripod and i had a nice

1819
01:08:52,070 --> 01:08:51,679
telephoto lens and i took some cool

1820
01:08:55,430 --> 01:08:52,080
pictures

1821
01:08:57,269 --> 01:08:55,440
of the moon and i had and then i can

1822
01:08:59,510 --> 01:08:57,279
blow those up on my enlarger

1823
01:09:01,110 --> 01:08:59,520
and so i made some kind of cool prints

1824
01:09:04,309 --> 01:09:01,120
uh of the moon

1825
01:09:07,829 --> 01:09:04,319
they took those and

1826
01:09:09,590 --> 01:09:07,839
i never saw them again and uh

1827
01:09:11,269 --> 01:09:09,600
but that's all they took uh they didn't

1828
01:09:13,749 --> 01:09:11,279
tear the place up

1829
01:09:15,910 --> 01:09:13,759
you know they were polite but they

1830
01:09:19,590 --> 01:09:15,920
looked through everything we had

1831
01:09:24,390 --> 01:09:22,709
so he finishes this interrogation when

1832
01:09:27,110 --> 01:09:24,400
i'm saying look we didn't do anything

1833
01:09:28,149 --> 01:09:27,120
unlawful we we left you know we weren't

1834
01:09:30,950 --> 01:09:28,159
worried about a 10

1835
01:09:33,349 --> 01:09:30,960
kmart tent we were hurting we wanted to

1836
01:09:35,669 --> 01:09:33,359
get back here

1837
01:09:36,950 --> 01:09:35,679
and he made some snide joke about my

1838
01:09:40,470 --> 01:09:36,960
sunburn or something

1839
01:09:41,189 --> 01:09:40,480
and uh the captain packs up his stuff

1840
01:09:44,950 --> 01:09:41,199
the nurse

1841
01:09:46,829 --> 01:09:44,960
comes back and and i got my shot

1842
01:09:47,990 --> 01:09:46,839
and uh he said yeah we're wrapping up

1843
01:09:50,470 --> 01:09:48,000
here

1844
01:09:52,229 --> 01:09:50,480
so he scooped up those four forms and

1845
01:09:54,390 --> 01:09:52,239
put them in his briefcase

1846
01:09:55,990 --> 01:09:54,400
so the captain leaves the nurse leaves

1847
01:09:57,910 --> 01:09:56,000
and it's just me and this major in the

1848
01:10:01,030 --> 01:09:57,920
room

1849
01:10:02,229 --> 01:10:01,040
and he had this like louisiana alabama

1850
01:10:05,590 --> 01:10:02,239
kind of accent kind of

1851
01:10:07,270 --> 01:10:05,600
kind of like calvin parker has and

1852
01:10:09,830 --> 01:10:07,280
the head of my bed is right near the

1853
01:10:12,070 --> 01:10:09,840
door and he's got his left hand up

1854
01:10:14,070 --> 01:10:12,080
against this door

1855
01:10:15,590 --> 01:10:14,080
so he could feel it if somebody you know

1856
01:10:18,149 --> 01:10:15,600
tries to come in the door

1857
01:10:19,669 --> 01:10:18,159
and he gets down next to my ear and he

1858
01:10:22,790 --> 01:10:19,679
whispers

1859
01:10:25,910 --> 01:10:22,800
and he says son i know

1860
01:10:27,430 --> 01:10:25,920
and you know you two knuckleheads

1861
01:10:29,590 --> 01:10:27,440
stumbled onto something when you were

1862
01:10:32,310 --> 01:10:29,600
out there and i think you know what i

1863
01:10:37,510 --> 01:10:35,030
and i didn't know how to answer because

1864
01:10:39,910 --> 01:10:37,520
i i thought is he talking about the ufo

1865
01:10:40,950 --> 01:10:39,920
is he talking about what else could he

1866
01:10:43,990 --> 01:10:40,960
be talking about

1867
01:10:47,350 --> 01:10:44,000
so i didn't know how to answer

1868
01:10:49,430 --> 01:10:47,360
and he says oh yeah he says i i know

1869
01:10:50,790 --> 01:10:49,440
you know what i'm talking about and i

1870
01:10:52,470 --> 01:10:50,800
want you to tell me how many pictures

1871
01:10:54,630 --> 01:10:52,480
you took of it

1872
01:10:57,430 --> 01:10:54,640
and without thinking i blurted out sir i

1873
01:10:59,750 --> 01:10:57,440
never took a single picture of it

1874
01:11:01,910 --> 01:10:59,760
and he just smiled because that was an

1875
01:11:05,750 --> 01:11:01,920
acknowledgement

1876
01:11:07,830 --> 01:11:05,760
you know he knew i knew he knew he knew

1877
01:11:09,350 --> 01:11:07,840
i knew we were on the same page

1878
01:11:11,430 --> 01:11:09,360
i i could say i don't know how these

1879
01:11:14,630 --> 01:11:11,440
guys knew but they certainly knew

1880
01:11:15,030 --> 01:11:14,640
why did they approach you from the from

1881
01:11:19,270 --> 01:11:15,040
this

1882
01:11:21,270 --> 01:11:19,280
instead of just coming right out with it

1883
01:11:23,030 --> 01:11:21,280
i'm confused can you do maybe you have

1884
01:11:25,189 --> 01:11:23,040
an info on that

1885
01:11:26,310 --> 01:11:25,199
i sure do yeah here's here's what i

1886
01:11:30,950 --> 01:11:26,320
believe

1887
01:11:32,630 --> 01:11:30,960
had a 36 exposure roll

1888
01:11:35,270 --> 01:11:32,640
of photographs of this thing hidden

1889
01:11:37,110 --> 01:11:35,280
somewhere that's what i think

1890
01:11:38,709 --> 01:11:37,120
because they didn't they didn't buy my

1891
01:11:40,070 --> 01:11:38,719
explanation that i didn't even take the

1892
01:11:41,990 --> 01:11:40,080
camera down there

1893
01:11:43,669 --> 01:11:42,000
oh so they thought maybe you weren't you

1894
01:11:44,870 --> 01:11:43,679
wouldn't be as willing to just send the

1895
01:11:48,149 --> 01:11:44,880
pictures over so

1896
01:11:49,430 --> 01:11:48,159
they had to start out with this act yeah

1897
01:11:51,270 --> 01:11:49,440
that's exactly what i think because you

1898
01:11:53,590 --> 01:11:51,280
know you think about it i mean if i had

1899
01:11:55,910 --> 01:11:53,600
a 36 exposure rule of film

1900
01:11:57,189 --> 01:11:55,920
are pictures of this thing i mean i

1901
01:11:58,870 --> 01:11:57,199
could have sold them to the national

1902
01:12:00,550 --> 01:11:58,880
enquirer and i'd be talking to you from

1903
01:12:03,830 --> 01:12:00,560
an island somewhere you know

1904
01:12:06,830 --> 01:12:03,840
i mean it would have been uh

1905
01:12:08,550 --> 01:12:06,840
you know it would have been very big

1906
01:12:10,630 --> 01:12:08,560
news

1907
01:12:11,910 --> 01:12:10,640
so i think they knew what we saw and i

1908
01:12:14,470 --> 01:12:11,920
think they were scared to death that i

1909
01:12:17,189 --> 01:12:14,480
had photographs of it

1910
01:12:17,750 --> 01:12:17,199
so that that was the reason for all the

1911
01:12:21,669 --> 01:12:17,760
theater

1912
01:12:24,790 --> 01:12:23,350
did you ever get in touch with your

1913
01:12:27,990 --> 01:12:24,800
friend since then

1914
01:12:29,430 --> 01:12:28,000
and now you know i i

1915
01:12:31,270 --> 01:12:29,440
that's kind of a long story but let me

1916
01:12:32,950 --> 01:12:31,280
get into it real quick um

1917
01:12:35,189 --> 01:12:32,960
because everyone everyone wants to know

1918
01:12:38,950 --> 01:12:35,199
that what happened to toby

1919
01:12:40,790 --> 01:12:38,960
toby had a sad decline um

1920
01:12:42,550 --> 01:12:40,800
and you know i could understand a little

1921
01:12:47,350 --> 01:12:42,560
bit he uh

1922
01:12:51,910 --> 01:12:49,990
you know i was uh i still sleep with a

1923
01:12:54,310 --> 01:12:51,920
light on

1924
01:12:55,189 --> 01:12:54,320
you know i had a lot of trouble with

1925
01:12:58,630 --> 01:12:55,199
sleep

1926
01:13:01,110 --> 01:12:58,640
and toby

1927
01:13:03,189 --> 01:13:01,120
when i saw him that last day i smelt

1928
01:13:06,630 --> 01:13:03,199
liquor on his breath

1929
01:13:10,070 --> 01:13:06,640
when we had our our handshake

1930
01:13:11,830 --> 01:13:10,080
and i thought i you know i knew toby to

1931
01:13:13,830 --> 01:13:11,840
maybe have a can of beer if we were

1932
01:13:15,990 --> 01:13:13,840
barbecuing or playing cards or something

1933
01:13:17,910 --> 01:13:16,000
he might have a can and a half

1934
01:13:19,030 --> 01:13:17,920
you know but i i certainly never saw the

1935
01:13:21,350 --> 01:13:19,040
man drunk

1936
01:13:22,070 --> 01:13:21,360
um and i never knew him to drink more

1937
01:13:25,110 --> 01:13:22,080
than you know

1938
01:13:26,950 --> 01:13:25,120
two beers tops so

1939
01:13:28,390 --> 01:13:26,960
to smell liquor on his breath was kind

1940
01:13:32,229 --> 01:13:28,400
of um

1941
01:13:34,550 --> 01:13:32,239
kind of shocking um

1942
01:13:36,229 --> 01:13:34,560
so he went to japan i got out of the

1943
01:13:40,070 --> 01:13:36,239
military i started school

1944
01:13:41,750 --> 01:13:40,080
finished school and um in the early 80s

1945
01:13:43,110 --> 01:13:41,760
i thought you know i wouldn't mind

1946
01:13:44,870 --> 01:13:43,120
i wouldn't mind finding out what

1947
01:13:48,070 --> 01:13:44,880
happened to my friend

1948
01:13:50,149 --> 01:13:48,080
so i had a phone number i had his dad's

1949
01:13:53,270 --> 01:13:50,159
phone number

1950
01:13:56,550 --> 01:13:53,280
up in flint michigan so i called his dad

1951
01:13:57,830 --> 01:13:56,560
and and he knew who i was and i said

1952
01:13:58,790 --> 01:13:57,840
yeah you know i was in the air force

1953
01:14:01,030 --> 01:13:58,800
with toby

1954
01:14:02,149 --> 01:14:01,040
and uh i'd love i'd love to speak with

1955
01:14:05,430 --> 01:14:02,159
him again

1956
01:14:08,149 --> 01:14:05,440
and see how he's doing and he says well

1957
01:14:08,709 --> 01:14:08,159
he doesn't doesn't stay here very much

1958
01:14:11,830 --> 01:14:08,719
but he

1959
01:14:13,350 --> 01:14:11,840
comes by now and then and i said well is

1960
01:14:15,189 --> 01:14:13,360
there a way i can reach him and he says

1961
01:14:17,510 --> 01:14:15,199
no but i'll take your number

1962
01:14:19,990 --> 01:14:17,520
and you know have him call you and i

1963
01:14:22,630 --> 01:14:20,000
said i'd appreciate that

1964
01:14:23,350 --> 01:14:22,640
and uh and that was that i thought you

1965
01:14:25,189 --> 01:14:23,360
know

1966
01:14:26,950 --> 01:14:25,199
in a week or two i'll get a friend i'll

1967
01:14:30,229 --> 01:14:26,960
get a friendly phone call from

1968
01:14:33,510 --> 01:14:30,239
toby and i never heard from him

1969
01:14:35,270 --> 01:14:33,520
and that was early in the year so the

1970
01:14:35,830 --> 01:14:35,280
christmas holiday rolled around and i

1971
01:14:38,070 --> 01:14:35,840
thought

1972
01:14:39,350 --> 01:14:38,080
you know i'm going to call him back and

1973
01:14:41,510 --> 01:14:39,360
i did call him back when i called him

1974
01:14:44,870 --> 01:14:41,520
back the number was disconnected

1975
01:14:47,590 --> 01:14:44,880
so what are you gonna do um

1976
01:14:48,470 --> 01:14:47,600
i did i didn't know anywhere else to go

1977
01:14:51,510 --> 01:14:48,480
um

1978
01:14:55,270 --> 01:14:51,520
and then a while later

1979
01:14:58,709 --> 01:14:55,280
my wife gets a phone call from

1980
01:15:01,030 --> 01:14:58,719
from his wife from tammy

1981
01:15:02,950 --> 01:15:01,040
and uh because they were good friends

1982
01:15:06,229 --> 01:15:02,960
and this this whole thing

1983
01:15:09,990 --> 01:15:06,239
between us tore that friendship apart

1984
01:15:10,470 --> 01:15:10,000
and she told my wife she said yeah you

1985
01:15:13,590 --> 01:15:10,480
know i

1986
01:15:17,430 --> 01:15:13,600
i toby and i separated and i came back

1987
01:15:20,310 --> 01:15:17,440
from japan and we got divorced

1988
01:15:22,950 --> 01:15:20,320
and i got the kids and he's living with

1989
01:15:24,630 --> 01:15:22,960
his dad in flint

1990
01:15:26,229 --> 01:15:24,640
and she told about me trying to get a

1991
01:15:28,950 --> 01:15:26,239
hold of him and

1992
01:15:30,630 --> 01:15:28,960
she said yeah the story was that toby

1993
01:15:34,149 --> 01:15:30,640
couldn't keep a job

1994
01:15:35,510 --> 01:15:34,159
had troubles with alcohol and the family

1995
01:15:37,350 --> 01:15:35,520
agreed to give him

1996
01:15:40,070 --> 01:15:37,360
after the dad had passed away and the

1997
01:15:41,830 --> 01:15:40,080
family agreed to give toby the house

1998
01:15:44,229 --> 01:15:41,840
to kind of help give him a leg up on

1999
01:15:45,990 --> 01:15:44,239
getting back on his feet

2000
01:15:48,790 --> 01:15:46,000
but he lost the house due to non-payment

2001
01:15:51,750 --> 01:15:48,800
of taxes so

2002
01:15:52,870 --> 01:15:51,760
he had he had a hard time that's

2003
01:15:54,630 --> 01:15:52,880
unfortunate so

2004
01:15:56,149 --> 01:15:54,640
what what was it specifically do you

2005
01:15:59,350 --> 01:15:56,159
think so you

2006
01:16:00,310 --> 01:15:59,360
you say you can't remember too much on

2007
01:16:03,030 --> 01:16:00,320
what happened

2008
01:16:03,990 --> 01:16:03,040
on the ships and so was it the

2009
01:16:06,470 --> 01:16:04,000
experience

2010
01:16:07,750 --> 01:16:06,480
of before and after and the feelings

2011
01:16:09,510 --> 01:16:07,760
that you were left with that they're

2012
01:16:13,110 --> 01:16:09,520
just distraught both of you

2013
01:16:15,110 --> 01:16:13,120
in such ways yeah i think the experience

2014
01:16:16,550 --> 01:16:15,120
i think the contact with non-human

2015
01:16:20,229 --> 01:16:16,560
entities

2016
01:16:22,950 --> 01:16:20,239
um has an effect on you i mean we

2017
01:16:23,990 --> 01:16:22,960
we left that meadow changed people we we

2018
01:16:26,550 --> 01:16:24,000
weren't the same to

2019
01:16:27,830 --> 01:16:26,560
kids that rolled down there we were

2020
01:16:31,990 --> 01:16:27,840
changed

2021
01:16:34,630 --> 01:16:32,000
and toby toby's wife

2022
01:16:35,590 --> 01:16:34,640
came to see us she was married to a guy

2023
01:16:39,110 --> 01:16:35,600
who drove it

2024
01:16:41,430 --> 01:16:39,120
like a long-haul truck driver you know

2025
01:16:42,630 --> 01:16:41,440
a rig over the road and she said that

2026
01:16:45,030 --> 01:16:42,640
her husband had a uh

2027
01:16:46,550 --> 01:16:45,040
her new husband had a load to take to

2028
01:16:47,669 --> 01:16:46,560
detroit and she's like you know we're

2029
01:16:47,990 --> 01:16:47,679
gonna be in your neighborhood can we

2030
01:16:50,229 --> 01:16:48,000
stop

2031
01:16:51,590 --> 01:16:50,239
by i'm like my wife says of course you

2032
01:16:52,790 --> 01:16:51,600
know come by let's go have dinner you

2033
01:16:54,470 --> 01:16:52,800
know

2034
01:16:56,709 --> 01:16:54,480
so she did and i got to talk to her

2035
01:16:59,590 --> 01:16:56,719
about toby

2036
01:17:01,030 --> 01:16:59,600
and that's how i found out that she told

2037
01:17:02,470 --> 01:17:01,040
me about toby's drinking it was

2038
01:17:03,590 --> 01:17:02,480
interesting because you know he didn't

2039
01:17:06,470 --> 01:17:03,600
frequent bars

2040
01:17:07,830 --> 01:17:06,480
he didn't drink during the day to speak

2041
01:17:11,590 --> 01:17:07,840
of

2042
01:17:14,709 --> 01:17:11,600
and

2043
01:17:16,790 --> 01:17:14,719
before bed he would just you know i'm

2044
01:17:18,630 --> 01:17:16,800
sure what started off as maybe a shot

2045
01:17:20,310 --> 01:17:18,640
or two in the evening to relax and get

2046
01:17:23,270 --> 01:17:20,320
to bed

2047
01:17:23,669 --> 01:17:23,280
you know over the years that became two

2048
01:17:27,669 --> 01:17:23,679
and then

2049
01:17:30,550 --> 01:17:27,679
it's a progressive thing as your body

2050
01:17:32,229 --> 01:17:30,560
develops a tolerance for the alcohol

2051
01:17:34,709 --> 01:17:32,239
and she said he would just drink till he

2052
01:17:36,229 --> 01:17:34,719
passed out every night

2053
01:17:37,750 --> 01:17:36,239
and you know if you do that you know it

2054
01:17:39,430 --> 01:17:37,760
robs you of your rem sleep

2055
01:17:41,830 --> 01:17:39,440
it does i mean all kinds of bad things

2056
01:17:45,669 --> 01:17:41,840
happen with your mind and your body

2057
01:17:46,470 --> 01:17:45,679
and that was unfortunate you know i had

2058
01:17:49,750 --> 01:17:46,480
trouble

2059
01:17:51,950 --> 01:17:49,760
with sleep and um

2060
01:17:54,470 --> 01:17:51,960
you know for a while in the 80s i took

2061
01:17:57,430 --> 01:17:54,480
benzodiazepines you know like valium

2062
01:17:59,350 --> 01:17:57,440
prescribed by a doctor but i realize

2063
01:18:00,790 --> 01:17:59,360
that's a slippery slope too you know you

2064
01:18:02,630 --> 01:18:00,800
take those for

2065
01:18:04,229 --> 01:18:02,640
you know six months and they don't do

2066
01:18:05,110 --> 01:18:04,239
then you gotta you know attempted to

2067
01:18:09,590 --> 01:18:05,120
take two

2068
01:18:13,669 --> 01:18:09,600
you know now i don't want to do this so

2069
01:18:16,550 --> 01:18:13,679
um i sleep at night with uh headphones

2070
01:18:18,229 --> 01:18:16,560
and i've got a i got heart problems so i

2071
01:18:21,270 --> 01:18:18,239
got a special shield on my

2072
01:18:23,669 --> 01:18:21,280
iphone uh i sleep in a t-shirt

2073
01:18:25,430 --> 01:18:23,679
with a pocket and i can slide my iphone

2074
01:18:26,950 --> 01:18:25,440
in the pocket and i can listen to

2075
01:18:28,790 --> 01:18:26,960
meditative apps

2076
01:18:30,950 --> 01:18:28,800
and that's how i get to sleep and it

2077
01:18:32,229 --> 01:18:30,960
also masks all the noise in the house so

2078
01:18:34,709 --> 01:18:32,239
that i don't get uh

2079
01:18:36,630 --> 01:18:34,719
you know freaked out by the noise in the

2080
01:18:39,430 --> 01:18:36,640
house settling or something

2081
01:18:39,990 --> 01:18:39,440
no you mentioned um when you two were in

2082
01:18:43,270 --> 01:18:40,000
the tent

2083
01:18:44,870 --> 01:18:43,280
that your friend said uh i'm i'm trying

2084
01:18:45,430 --> 01:18:44,880
to recall you said something along the

2085
01:18:46,950 --> 01:18:45,440
lines of

2086
01:18:48,950 --> 01:18:46,960
do you remember that did bad things to

2087
01:18:50,470 --> 01:18:48,960
us is that what you said

2088
01:18:51,830 --> 01:18:50,480
they took us and they heard us they

2089
01:18:52,630 --> 01:18:51,840
heard us okay i'm sorry thank you for

2090
01:18:55,910 --> 01:18:52,640
the correction

2091
01:18:56,550 --> 01:18:55,920
so um do you think he remembered maybe

2092
01:18:58,709 --> 01:18:56,560
more

2093
01:18:59,590 --> 01:18:58,719
what happened there and was affected by

2094
01:19:01,750 --> 01:18:59,600
that

2095
01:19:02,950 --> 01:19:01,760
you know or or obviously i mean i know

2096
01:19:04,310 --> 01:19:02,960
you didn't have a

2097
01:19:05,910 --> 01:19:04,320
like she mentioned didn't have

2098
01:19:06,950 --> 01:19:05,920
necessarily a conversation with him

2099
01:19:10,149 --> 01:19:06,960
about it but

2100
01:19:11,910 --> 01:19:10,159
um i wondered if he remembered more of

2101
01:19:13,189 --> 01:19:11,920
what actually happened there so that

2102
01:19:14,950 --> 01:19:13,199
kind of stuck with him

2103
01:19:17,110 --> 01:19:14,960
whereas in you might just have the

2104
01:19:19,030 --> 01:19:17,120
before and after memory

2105
01:19:20,390 --> 01:19:19,040
yeah well you know i have little

2106
01:19:23,510 --> 01:19:20,400
vignettes little

2107
01:19:23,910 --> 01:19:23,520
flashes of memory um from being inside

2108
01:19:26,470 --> 01:19:23,920
there

2109
01:19:28,870 --> 01:19:26,480
and those flashes of memory have visited

2110
01:19:29,990 --> 01:19:28,880
my dreams at night for 40 years you know

2111
01:19:33,030 --> 01:19:30,000
my

2112
01:19:35,910 --> 01:19:33,040
never knew this story

2113
01:19:37,669 --> 01:19:35,920
um and you know all they knew was i'd

2114
01:19:39,110 --> 01:19:37,679
wake up having screaming nightmares once

2115
01:19:41,030 --> 01:19:39,120
or twice a year

2116
01:19:42,630 --> 01:19:41,040
uh and it was about it once or twice a

2117
01:19:45,750 --> 01:19:42,640
year i'd have the

2118
01:19:48,070 --> 01:19:45,760
um same half dozen dreams

2119
01:19:51,910 --> 01:19:48,080
uh and once they start they have to play

2120
01:19:54,229 --> 01:19:51,920
out before i can wake up make myself up

2121
01:19:55,590 --> 01:19:54,239
but yeah i don't know what and see

2122
01:19:57,110 --> 01:19:55,600
that's another thing that doesn't make

2123
01:19:59,590 --> 01:19:57,120
sense is

2124
01:20:01,430 --> 01:19:59,600
you know we went through this experience

2125
01:20:03,669 --> 01:20:01,440
on that ride back we had all the

2126
01:20:08,470 --> 01:20:03,679
opportunity in the world

2127
01:20:10,790 --> 01:20:08,480
to to talk about this thing and to

2128
01:20:13,270 --> 01:20:10,800
you know help validate each other's

2129
01:20:16,390 --> 01:20:13,280
story and process it

2130
01:20:19,750 --> 01:20:16,400
and we didn't do that

2131
01:20:22,310 --> 01:20:19,760
we didn't talk about it um you know in

2132
01:20:24,470 --> 01:20:22,320
2014 when i decided to write a book

2133
01:20:26,070 --> 01:20:24,480
um and i started writing with the

2134
01:20:26,709 --> 01:20:26,080
realization that i'm going to publish

2135
01:20:31,830 --> 01:20:26,719
this

2136
01:20:33,910 --> 01:20:31,840
to the world i felt terribly guilty

2137
01:20:34,950 --> 01:20:33,920
felt like i was violating a fiduciary

2138
01:20:37,110 --> 01:20:34,960
trust you know

2139
01:20:40,070 --> 01:20:37,120
or like a family secret or something

2140
01:20:43,189 --> 01:20:40,080
that i shouldn't tell

2141
01:20:48,070 --> 01:20:47,270
yeah so toby toby had had his struggles

2142
01:20:49,910 --> 01:20:48,080
and and i

2143
01:20:51,990 --> 01:20:49,920
i wish we'd had the opportunity to get

2144
01:20:55,189 --> 01:20:52,000
together and speak

2145
01:20:58,229 --> 01:20:55,199
you know i explained in my second book

2146
01:20:59,910 --> 01:20:58,239
what happened was that

2147
01:21:01,910 --> 01:20:59,920
later on in my career i'm working on a

2148
01:21:05,510 --> 01:21:01,920
case that involved the fbi

2149
01:21:08,149 --> 01:21:05,520
and i always knew fbi people to be

2150
01:21:09,110 --> 01:21:08,159
you know a cut above very stand-up

2151
01:21:12,229 --> 01:21:09,120
they're good people

2152
01:21:15,830 --> 01:21:13,669
i don't want to say anything disparaging

2153
01:21:19,350 --> 01:21:15,840
about them i respect them

2154
01:21:22,310 --> 01:21:19,360
um but i i met this fbi agent

2155
01:21:22,950 --> 01:21:22,320
and on friday nights we'd sometimes go

2156
01:21:25,350 --> 01:21:22,960
to the bar

2157
01:21:26,550 --> 01:21:25,360
you know we had a long week and we'd

2158
01:21:28,149 --> 01:21:26,560
have a beer or two

2159
01:21:31,030 --> 01:21:28,159
and uh just talk about the weak and

2160
01:21:33,910 --> 01:21:31,040
decompress and uh

2161
01:21:35,350 --> 01:21:33,920
nice guy and i asked him one night i

2162
01:21:37,030 --> 01:21:35,360
said hey you think he could help me find

2163
01:21:38,790 --> 01:21:37,040
my friend

2164
01:21:40,790 --> 01:21:38,800
and he said sure i can find anybody so

2165
01:21:42,870 --> 01:21:40,800
long as they're not a fugitive

2166
01:21:44,629 --> 01:21:42,880
and that was humor that that was his way

2167
01:21:46,870 --> 01:21:44,639
of making a joke because that's his job

2168
01:21:50,950 --> 01:21:46,880
you know to find fugitives so

2169
01:21:52,470 --> 01:21:50,960
um or part of his job anyway um

2170
01:21:54,149 --> 01:21:52,480
so he said yeah he said do this write

2171
01:21:55,430 --> 01:21:54,159
down everything you can remember about

2172
01:21:58,550 --> 01:21:55,440
the guy

2173
01:22:01,750 --> 01:21:58,560
give me as much detail as you can

2174
01:22:03,350 --> 01:22:01,760
and tell me everything you know and i'll

2175
01:22:05,510 --> 01:22:03,360
see what i can do he says obviously i

2176
01:22:07,910 --> 01:22:05,520
can't open an official investigation he

2177
01:22:09,350 --> 01:22:07,920
said this is a favor for a friend

2178
01:22:11,830 --> 01:22:09,360
and i said that's awesome i really

2179
01:22:13,510 --> 01:22:11,840
appreciate that so i did that i put

2180
01:22:15,110 --> 01:22:13,520
everything together put in an envelope

2181
01:22:17,590 --> 01:22:15,120
and got it to him

2182
01:22:18,390 --> 01:22:17,600
um and about two weeks later he calls me

2183
01:22:20,070 --> 01:22:18,400
up and he says

2184
01:22:21,430 --> 01:22:20,080
uh i got some news about your buddy you

2185
01:22:24,870 --> 01:22:21,440
want to meet me at the bar

2186
01:22:25,910 --> 01:22:24,880
and i'm like sure so uh two days later

2187
01:22:28,310 --> 01:22:25,920
it was friday and i

2188
01:22:29,189 --> 01:22:28,320
i got to the bar and he was late which

2189
01:22:31,510 --> 01:22:29,199
was not

2190
01:22:32,870 --> 01:22:31,520
his habit he was usually very punctual

2191
01:22:37,189 --> 01:22:32,880
and

2192
01:22:39,110 --> 01:22:37,199
he walked in i could tell

2193
01:22:42,470 --> 01:22:39,120
that whatever it was it wasn't going to

2194
01:22:43,990 --> 01:22:42,480
be good news you know

2195
01:22:45,510 --> 01:22:44,000
and he comes over and he sits down and

2196
01:22:46,950 --> 01:22:45,520
gets right to the point and says i'm

2197
01:22:49,669 --> 01:22:46,960
afraid i have bad news for you i'm

2198
01:22:51,030 --> 01:22:49,679
afraid your friend is dead

2199
01:22:52,629 --> 01:22:51,040
and i'm shocked and i'm like what do you

2200
01:22:53,910 --> 01:22:52,639
mean he's dead he's a young man not

2201
01:22:55,590 --> 01:22:53,920
going to be dead

2202
01:22:57,189 --> 01:22:55,600
and he said he died in an automobile

2203
01:22:59,350 --> 01:22:57,199
accident he said it was a crossover

2204
01:23:01,110 --> 01:22:59,360
accident of highway 9 interstate 94

2205
01:23:03,510 --> 01:23:01,120
going to detroit

2206
01:23:06,470 --> 01:23:03,520
uh two people were killed your friend

2207
01:23:08,070 --> 01:23:06,480
toby was the only guy in the car um

2208
01:23:10,470 --> 01:23:08,080
so he didn't lose a family member at

2209
01:23:12,790 --> 01:23:10,480
least but uh but he was killed

2210
01:23:13,910 --> 01:23:12,800
and uh and he said you know terry you

2211
01:23:19,510 --> 01:23:13,920
know

2212
01:23:21,430 --> 01:23:19,520
i suggest that you come to terms with it

2213
01:23:23,830 --> 01:23:21,440
move on with your life

2214
01:23:26,470 --> 01:23:23,840
and i and i did and you know i kicked

2215
01:23:27,990 --> 01:23:26,480
myself to this day because

2216
01:23:29,750 --> 01:23:28,000
i could have so easily picked up the

2217
01:23:32,950 --> 01:23:29,760
phone and spoke to

2218
01:23:35,590 --> 01:23:32,960
the michigan state police

2219
01:23:37,669 --> 01:23:35,600
and verified that got a copy of the

2220
01:23:41,910 --> 01:23:37,679
accident report

2221
01:23:44,550 --> 01:23:41,920
um but you know i never did that

2222
01:23:46,229 --> 01:23:44,560
and i found out in 2017 when i started

2223
01:23:48,470 --> 01:23:46,239
writing this book

2224
01:23:49,669 --> 01:23:48,480
i found out that toby's actual date of

2225
01:23:51,430 --> 01:23:49,679
death because i was going to visit his

2226
01:23:54,709 --> 01:23:51,440
gravesite his actual date of death

2227
01:23:58,149 --> 01:23:54,719
is september 4th 2007.

2228
01:24:01,350 --> 01:23:58,159
so he was alive so i was given

2229
01:24:05,110 --> 01:24:01,360
wrong information i was either

2230
01:24:07,189 --> 01:24:05,120
i think i was lied to and

2231
01:24:09,669 --> 01:24:07,199
i think the reason for that is i think

2232
01:24:11,350 --> 01:24:09,679
that on some federal level

2233
01:24:13,830 --> 01:24:11,360
you know there's a note that these two

2234
01:24:15,430 --> 01:24:13,840
guys should not get together

2235
01:24:17,830 --> 01:24:15,440
because you know if we got together and

2236
01:24:21,110 --> 01:24:17,840
wanted to talk about it

2237
01:24:24,390 --> 01:24:21,120
in the 70s 80s 90s whenever

2238
01:24:27,750 --> 01:24:24,400
you know one person tells a story

2239
01:24:29,510 --> 01:24:27,760
and it's their story but when two people

2240
01:24:31,110 --> 01:24:29,520
you know share an event like betty and

2241
01:24:34,390 --> 01:24:31,120
barney hill each

2242
01:24:38,149 --> 01:24:34,400
each one bolsters the others story

2243
01:24:39,990 --> 01:24:38,159
and uh and it's more believable

2244
01:24:43,030 --> 01:24:40,000
so i think for that reason they did not

2245
01:24:45,430 --> 01:24:43,040
want us to get back together

2246
01:24:47,750 --> 01:24:45,440
and i think that's why he lied to me

2247
01:24:50,229 --> 01:24:47,760
that is interesting especially

2248
01:24:51,990 --> 01:24:50,239
when you recall the chain of events you

2249
01:24:52,470 --> 01:24:52,000
would it makes you think this almost

2250
01:24:55,590 --> 01:24:52,480
like a

2251
01:24:56,950 --> 01:24:55,600
corroborative co-robert terriff can't

2252
01:25:00,070 --> 01:24:56,960
speak english today

2253
01:25:01,830 --> 01:25:00,080
uh what is the word i'm trying to say

2254
01:25:03,350 --> 01:25:01,840
yes a corroboration between the

2255
01:25:04,229 --> 01:25:03,360
corroboration between these different

2256
01:25:06,629 --> 01:25:04,239
agencies

2257
01:25:07,910 --> 01:25:06,639
and that's really kind of strange

2258
01:25:10,870 --> 01:25:07,920
because obviously

2259
01:25:11,110 --> 01:25:10,880
um there is always when it comes to you

2260
01:25:14,629 --> 01:25:11,120
know

2261
01:25:17,430 --> 01:25:14,639
things like that but

2262
01:25:20,310 --> 01:25:17,440
to even go to that extent for something

2263
01:25:25,110 --> 01:25:20,320
like that experience for them to kind of

2264
01:25:28,950 --> 01:25:25,120
unite and kind of do a cross reference

2265
01:25:29,590 --> 01:25:28,960
it does it kind of i mean it's kind of

2266
01:25:36,950 --> 01:25:29,600
um

2267
01:25:38,310 --> 01:25:36,960
mean he may have made a mistake

2268
01:25:40,390 --> 01:25:38,320
he certainly didn't seem like the kind

2269
01:25:43,430 --> 01:25:40,400
of guy to make a mistake

2270
01:25:44,310 --> 01:25:43,440
um so you know and that's an assumption

2271
01:25:46,470 --> 01:25:44,320
on my part but

2272
01:25:47,750 --> 01:25:46,480
but i believe that i believe that they

2273
01:25:49,910 --> 01:25:47,760
don't want us together and they'll do

2274
01:25:52,950 --> 01:25:49,920
everything they can to keep us apart

2275
01:25:54,550 --> 01:25:52,960
and uh you know it's just a shame it's

2276
01:25:55,990 --> 01:25:54,560
all those decades lost that we could

2277
01:25:58,310 --> 01:25:56,000
have been

2278
01:25:59,189 --> 01:25:58,320
talking about this terri before we get

2279
01:26:01,189 --> 01:25:59,199
too far off

2280
01:26:02,709 --> 01:26:01,199
could you maybe just go a little bit in

2281
01:26:05,510 --> 01:26:02,719
detail or however much

2282
01:26:07,590 --> 01:26:05,520
detail you would like about those little

2283
01:26:07,990 --> 01:26:07,600
you said little flashes of memory that

2284
01:26:10,550 --> 01:26:08,000
you do

2285
01:26:12,229 --> 01:26:10,560
have being on board oh i would i would

2286
01:26:15,669 --> 01:26:12,239
like to tell that

2287
01:26:18,950 --> 01:26:15,679
uh because i they visit me and

2288
01:26:21,030 --> 01:26:18,960
these images that little vignettes visit

2289
01:26:24,229 --> 01:26:21,040
me in my sleep

2290
01:26:27,189 --> 01:26:24,239
i recall that i don't know

2291
01:26:28,790 --> 01:26:27,199
if they took us someplace if they put us

2292
01:26:31,030 --> 01:26:28,800
inside this triangle and then took us to

2293
01:26:33,510 --> 01:26:31,040
another location

2294
01:26:34,149 --> 01:26:33,520
because the place that i i opened my

2295
01:26:37,590 --> 01:26:34,159
eyes

2296
01:26:40,870 --> 01:26:37,600
and i was standing up and uh

2297
01:26:43,830 --> 01:26:40,880
we were in this giant space

2298
01:26:45,430 --> 01:26:43,840
and the inside looked much bigger than

2299
01:26:46,870 --> 01:26:45,440
it did from the outside from the outside

2300
01:26:48,390 --> 01:26:46,880
it looked like a five-story medical

2301
01:26:50,950 --> 01:26:48,400
building from the inside it was like

2302
01:26:53,590 --> 01:26:50,960
something on the order of an nfl stadium

2303
01:26:55,350 --> 01:26:53,600
i mean it was just immense so i'm not

2304
01:26:57,830 --> 01:26:55,360
sure we were even there i think they may

2305
01:27:00,550 --> 01:26:57,840
have taxied us somewhere who knows

2306
01:27:02,310 --> 01:27:00,560
but i was standing there and i had all

2307
01:27:04,629 --> 01:27:02,320
my clothing and my boots

2308
01:27:05,750 --> 01:27:04,639
in my hand holding them about chest

2309
01:27:08,709 --> 01:27:05,760
level

2310
01:27:10,070 --> 01:27:08,719
and i can't move um i'm frozen i'm

2311
01:27:11,990 --> 01:27:10,080
paralyzed whatever

2312
01:27:14,390 --> 01:27:12,000
i can't move the only thing i can move

2313
01:27:17,750 --> 01:27:14,400
is my eyes i can i can roll my eyes

2314
01:27:20,790 --> 01:27:17,760
and look around and take in as much in

2315
01:27:24,470 --> 01:27:20,800
180 degrees as i can

2316
01:27:28,070 --> 01:27:24,480
and uh i was terrified

2317
01:27:30,149 --> 01:27:28,080
i had no way to show it um

2318
01:27:32,149 --> 01:27:30,159
and this thing was absolutely this thing

2319
01:27:33,669 --> 01:27:32,159
was just immense it was just absolutely

2320
01:27:37,350 --> 01:27:33,679
enormous

2321
01:27:41,030 --> 01:27:37,360
and i saw i saw three

2322
01:27:42,950 --> 01:27:41,040
saucers three flying discs lined up i

2323
01:27:45,830 --> 01:27:42,960
mean like like planes under a carrier

2324
01:27:48,310 --> 01:27:45,840
deck they're lined up

2325
01:27:50,310 --> 01:27:48,320
against these huge garage doors on the

2326
01:27:52,790 --> 01:27:50,320
left

2327
01:27:53,750 --> 01:27:52,800
and this thing had it had like an open

2328
01:27:55,830 --> 01:27:53,760
atrium

2329
01:27:58,149 --> 01:27:55,840
and i couldn't tilt my head back so i

2330
01:28:00,470 --> 01:27:58,159
couldn't see how high this went

2331
01:28:02,310 --> 01:28:00,480
but there were multiple levels and

2332
01:28:05,910 --> 01:28:02,320
walkways that went around

2333
01:28:08,149 --> 01:28:05,920
like a spiral and i saw

2334
01:28:10,550 --> 01:28:08,159
the little you know the i guess there

2335
01:28:12,550 --> 01:28:10,560
are maybe

2336
01:28:13,750 --> 01:28:12,560
well there's more than one species of

2337
01:28:17,030 --> 01:28:13,760
gray i guess

2338
01:28:18,629 --> 01:28:17,040
because the ones that i saw you know

2339
01:28:20,790 --> 01:28:18,639
people told me well i saw them too and

2340
01:28:22,629 --> 01:28:20,800
they were different than that so

2341
01:28:25,110 --> 01:28:22,639
i don't know i can only tell you what i

2342
01:28:28,310 --> 01:28:25,120
saw my experience was

2343
01:28:30,310 --> 01:28:28,320
and that was

2344
01:28:32,149 --> 01:28:30,320
i don't think that these things these

2345
01:28:34,790 --> 01:28:32,159
are sentient human beings

2346
01:28:36,229 --> 01:28:34,800
i i really don't think they're

2347
01:28:38,470 --> 01:28:36,239
self-aware like you and i

2348
01:28:40,149 --> 01:28:38,480
are i think they're more kind of like

2349
01:28:40,709 --> 01:28:40,159
little robots or you know they're

2350
01:28:42,310 --> 01:28:40,719
probably

2351
01:28:44,030 --> 01:28:42,320
artificial intelligence quantum

2352
01:28:46,790 --> 01:28:44,040
computing you know

2353
01:28:47,430 --> 01:28:46,800
nanotechnology some biological material

2354
01:28:50,790 --> 01:28:47,440
and

2355
01:28:53,110 --> 01:28:50,800
but

2356
01:28:55,189 --> 01:28:53,120
i think they're manufactured i don't

2357
01:28:59,030 --> 01:28:55,199
think that they're

2358
01:29:00,709 --> 01:28:59,040
organically biological self-reproducing

2359
01:29:03,189 --> 01:29:00,719
things i think they come off an assembly

2360
01:29:04,149 --> 01:29:03,199
line with this were they the same types

2361
01:29:07,669 --> 01:29:04,159
that you saw

2362
01:29:11,350 --> 01:29:07,679
outside they were they were

2363
01:29:12,870 --> 01:29:11,360
although inside they walked without the

2364
01:29:15,590 --> 01:29:12,880
limp

2365
01:29:16,950 --> 01:29:15,600
which was curious so inside of this

2366
01:29:20,229 --> 01:29:16,960
craft

2367
01:29:22,950 --> 01:29:20,239
they walked just fine but on the outside

2368
01:29:25,430 --> 01:29:22,960
when they were walking around on on

2369
01:29:28,229 --> 01:29:25,440
earth on the ground

2370
01:29:29,110 --> 01:29:28,239
uh they walk with that distinctive gate

2371
01:29:31,350 --> 01:29:29,120
but

2372
01:29:32,870 --> 01:29:31,360
we saw a lot of them uh because they

2373
01:29:35,750 --> 01:29:32,880
were they were all running around all

2374
01:29:38,470 --> 01:29:35,760
over the place they seemed task oriented

2375
01:29:39,030 --> 01:29:38,480
um you know you didn't see any uh you

2376
01:29:41,510 --> 01:29:39,040
know

2377
01:29:43,590 --> 01:29:41,520
there were no slackers everybody was was

2378
01:29:46,390 --> 01:29:43,600
was doing something

2379
01:29:47,910 --> 01:29:46,400
and that's why i thought they gave me

2380
01:29:48,870 --> 01:29:47,920
the impression that they were like

2381
01:29:50,550 --> 01:29:48,880
drones

2382
01:29:52,550 --> 01:29:50,560
i think in my book i called them worker

2383
01:29:55,910 --> 01:29:52,560
bees and i think that's a

2384
01:29:58,709 --> 01:29:55,920
that's a pretty apt description

2385
01:30:00,870 --> 01:29:58,719
and while i'm watching everything going

2386
01:30:03,189 --> 01:30:00,880
on in front of me

2387
01:30:06,950 --> 01:30:03,199
oh i should mention the light the light

2388
01:30:09,030 --> 01:30:06,960
inside this thing was absolutely insane

2389
01:30:10,310 --> 01:30:09,040
and i think that's what may have burned

2390
01:30:11,990 --> 01:30:10,320
us that what

2391
01:30:13,510 --> 01:30:12,000
certainly probably you know hurt our

2392
01:30:16,790 --> 01:30:13,520
eyes

2393
01:30:18,229 --> 01:30:16,800
um because the light was so bright

2394
01:30:19,910 --> 01:30:18,239
it was it was hard to keep your eyes

2395
01:30:22,870 --> 01:30:19,920
open it was kind of squinting throughout

2396
01:30:26,870 --> 01:30:24,470
and i could never see a light fixture i

2397
01:30:30,709 --> 01:30:26,880
don't know where the light emanated from

2398
01:30:34,070 --> 01:30:30,719
but it was just everywhere

2399
01:30:37,110 --> 01:30:34,080
everything was gray um

2400
01:30:37,669 --> 01:30:37,120
white uh or stainless steel the floor

2401
01:30:40,870 --> 01:30:37,679
was like

2402
01:30:42,950 --> 01:30:40,880
like a gray the the walls were

2403
01:30:44,390 --> 01:30:42,960
like white panels look almost like

2404
01:30:47,510 --> 01:30:44,400
porcelain

2405
01:30:49,270 --> 01:30:47,520
and then stainless steel uh support

2406
01:30:52,310 --> 01:30:49,280
structures

2407
01:30:55,830 --> 01:30:52,320
and um

2408
01:31:02,310 --> 01:30:59,189
i saw other human beings in there

2409
01:31:04,070 --> 01:31:02,320
and that's kind of disturbing

2410
01:31:06,790 --> 01:31:04,080
i could perceive that my friend is right

2411
01:31:10,149 --> 01:31:06,800
next to me i can strain my eyes and just

2412
01:31:11,030 --> 01:31:10,159
see his hand so where he's holding his

2413
01:31:14,149 --> 01:31:11,040
clothing

2414
01:31:18,950 --> 01:31:14,159
so i know that he's right next to me

2415
01:31:20,550 --> 01:31:18,960
and then to my right there are um

2416
01:31:22,229 --> 01:31:20,560
what looked like it could have been 20

2417
01:31:23,910 --> 01:31:22,239
it could have been 200 i don't know

2418
01:31:26,229 --> 01:31:23,920
because i couldn't turn my head to see

2419
01:31:27,910 --> 01:31:26,239
how far back it went

2420
01:31:30,629 --> 01:31:27,920
but there were these people lined up in

2421
01:31:32,629 --> 01:31:30,639
rows and columns

2422
01:31:33,669 --> 01:31:32,639
and but they were a mixed bag they

2423
01:31:36,470 --> 01:31:33,679
weren't men

2424
01:31:37,189 --> 01:31:36,480
they were men women and children and

2425
01:31:39,030 --> 01:31:37,199
they were all

2426
01:31:40,470 --> 01:31:39,040
in the same situation we were they were

2427
01:31:42,790 --> 01:31:40,480
all holding their clothing in their

2428
01:31:45,350 --> 01:31:42,800
hands

2429
01:31:48,629 --> 01:31:45,360
and their eyes are darting all over and

2430
01:31:53,830 --> 01:31:52,149
and when they you know they kicked

2431
01:31:55,750 --> 01:31:53,840
toby and i out of there but i don't know

2432
01:31:56,709 --> 01:31:55,760
what happened to those people i assume

2433
01:32:00,550 --> 01:31:56,719
that they went

2434
01:32:03,910 --> 01:32:00,560
you know up with them i i hope that they

2435
01:32:06,149 --> 01:32:03,920
made their way home somehow the other

2436
01:32:08,550 --> 01:32:06,159
humans i saw

2437
01:32:10,390 --> 01:32:08,560
was i saw and i can't tell you if it was

2438
01:32:14,149 --> 01:32:10,400
six or seven

2439
01:32:17,669 --> 01:32:14,159
i want to say six um young people

2440
01:32:21,030 --> 01:32:17,679
like between 18 and 21

2441
01:32:23,830 --> 01:32:21,040
um very fit with

2442
01:32:25,830 --> 01:32:23,840
military style haircuts one of them was

2443
01:32:30,870 --> 01:32:25,840
a woman

2444
01:32:36,470 --> 01:32:34,070
with a ponytail and they all wore tan

2445
01:32:39,669 --> 01:32:36,480
colored flight suits

2446
01:32:41,350 --> 01:32:39,679
and nobody in any of the arm united

2447
01:32:44,470 --> 01:32:41,360
states armed forces anyway

2448
01:32:47,030 --> 01:32:44,480
wore tan flight suits

2449
01:32:47,990 --> 01:32:47,040
uh and they had an orange patch on the

2450
01:32:51,350 --> 01:32:48,000
shoulder

2451
01:32:51,990 --> 01:32:51,360
that i was too far away to read but you

2452
01:32:53,750 --> 01:32:52,000
could tell

2453
01:32:56,950 --> 01:32:53,760
by the way these guys walked and carried

2454
01:32:59,350 --> 01:32:56,960
themselves that they were crew members

2455
01:33:01,590 --> 01:32:59,360
they wouldn't look at us i never heard

2456
01:33:04,709 --> 01:33:01,600
them speak

2457
01:33:07,510 --> 01:33:04,719
they walked over and the guy in front

2458
01:33:08,950 --> 01:33:07,520
did something to a panel that was at an

2459
01:33:10,310 --> 01:33:08,960
angle that i couldn't see what he was

2460
01:33:12,470 --> 01:33:10,320
doing but it looked like he was pressing

2461
01:33:14,149 --> 01:33:12,480
buttons or something he does that for

2462
01:33:15,590 --> 01:33:14,159
two seconds and then they turn around in

2463
01:33:19,830 --> 01:33:15,600
mass and they just kind of

2464
01:33:21,990 --> 01:33:19,840
wander away um so i wonder about that

2465
01:33:22,310 --> 01:33:22,000
you know i hear these stories about you

2466
01:33:25,510 --> 01:33:22,320
know

2467
01:33:25,990 --> 01:33:25,520
secret space program and uh all this

2468
01:33:29,110 --> 01:33:26,000
stuff

2469
01:33:31,189 --> 01:33:29,120
and uh who were they i have no idea

2470
01:33:32,310 --> 01:33:31,199
but do you that was human enough for you

2471
01:33:36,149 --> 01:33:32,320
to recognize as

2472
01:33:38,470 --> 01:33:36,159
human or do you think absolutely you can

2473
01:33:39,830 --> 01:33:38,480
offshoot like a hybrid of sorts

2474
01:33:41,830 --> 01:33:39,840
you know they could have been a hybrid

2475
01:33:43,590 --> 01:33:41,840
of sorts i mean i don't know i mean they

2476
01:33:44,870 --> 01:33:43,600
control

2477
01:33:46,709 --> 01:33:44,880
you know that level of effort they

2478
01:33:48,390 --> 01:33:46,719
control what we see what we they can

2479
01:33:50,070 --> 01:33:48,400
control our emotions so that

2480
01:33:51,430 --> 01:33:50,080
that may have been a screen memory those

2481
01:33:54,550 --> 01:33:51,440
those might have not have

2482
01:33:55,350 --> 01:33:54,560
even been human beings but i know what i

2483
01:33:58,070 --> 01:33:55,360
saw

2484
01:33:59,350 --> 01:33:58,080
and what i perceived uh was that these

2485
01:34:01,189 --> 01:33:59,360
these guys were human

2486
01:34:03,990 --> 01:34:01,199
i never heard them speak that would have

2487
01:34:06,629 --> 01:34:04,000
made me a little more comfortable

2488
01:34:07,510 --> 01:34:06,639
saying that they were definitely human

2489
01:34:09,669 --> 01:34:07,520
um

2490
01:34:11,830 --> 01:34:09,679
and they they had they were combat boots

2491
01:34:15,350 --> 01:34:11,840
identical to the ones i wore

2492
01:34:18,550 --> 01:34:15,360
so you know i thought

2493
01:34:21,110 --> 01:34:18,560
you know where did these guys come from

2494
01:34:22,629 --> 01:34:21,120
and uh i don't know the next thing i

2495
01:34:24,550 --> 01:34:22,639
remembered

2496
01:34:25,750 --> 01:34:24,560
um and this is a condensed version

2497
01:34:27,510 --> 01:34:25,760
because i think we were in there

2498
01:34:32,470 --> 01:34:27,520
somewhere around five six hours

2499
01:34:35,510 --> 01:34:32,480
and i heard i heard a woman screaming

2500
01:34:38,149 --> 01:34:35,520
and that was very unsettling

2501
01:34:40,310 --> 01:34:38,159
and the most frightening thing that i

2502
01:34:43,350 --> 01:34:40,320
saw in there

2503
01:34:46,229 --> 01:34:43,360
was an encounter with this thing there

2504
01:34:48,070 --> 01:34:46,239
was this being that was um

2505
01:34:50,070 --> 01:34:48,080
twice as tall as the greys he's about a

2506
01:34:53,030 --> 01:34:50,080
little over six foot tall

2507
01:34:54,709 --> 01:34:53,040
he was and he wasn't gray he was pinkish

2508
01:34:57,830 --> 01:34:54,719
he was pinkish white

2509
01:35:01,270 --> 01:34:57,840
chalky kind of kind of complexion

2510
01:35:03,510 --> 01:35:01,280
and he wore a gray garment

2511
01:35:05,990 --> 01:35:03,520
with a v-neck like a knit garment i

2512
01:35:09,590 --> 01:35:06,000
didn't see any insignia of rank or

2513
01:35:11,830 --> 01:35:09,600
patches of any kind and he walked across

2514
01:35:15,189 --> 01:35:11,840
my field of vision

2515
01:35:16,950 --> 01:35:15,199
and and he walked with authority

2516
01:35:19,189 --> 01:35:16,960
you know he you could tell he was a he

2517
01:35:22,950 --> 01:35:19,199
was a guy in charge you know

2518
01:35:25,830 --> 01:35:22,960
and i'm straining my eyes to the left

2519
01:35:27,590 --> 01:35:25,840
to look at him and i think just by

2520
01:35:27,990 --> 01:35:27,600
happenstance he turned his head to the

2521
01:35:32,790 --> 01:35:28,000
right

2522
01:35:36,070 --> 01:35:35,030
and i know this is hard to comprehend

2523
01:35:38,310 --> 01:35:36,080
but in that

2524
01:35:40,550 --> 01:35:38,320
in that millisecond that we locked eyes

2525
01:35:43,109 --> 01:35:40,560
the sky was in my head

2526
01:35:45,030 --> 01:35:43,119
i mean i knew he was in my head it was

2527
01:35:47,189 --> 01:35:45,040
it was the biggest invasion of privacy

2528
01:35:49,350 --> 01:35:47,199
i i've ever felt in my life i felt like

2529
01:35:51,189 --> 01:35:49,360
he knew me he knew my wife he knew my

2530
01:35:54,390 --> 01:35:51,199
secrets he knew my plans

2531
01:35:57,990 --> 01:35:57,270
and what i got radiating back from his

2532
01:36:01,750 --> 01:35:58,000
eyes

2533
01:36:04,070 --> 01:36:01,760
um was just raw intellect

2534
01:36:05,669 --> 01:36:04,080
i'll tell you the analogy that i use and

2535
01:36:08,470 --> 01:36:05,679
it's a good one

2536
01:36:09,270 --> 01:36:08,480
um when our kids were little we had a

2537
01:36:12,950 --> 01:36:09,280
dog

2538
01:36:15,590 --> 01:36:12,960
uh we had an english setter you know

2539
01:36:15,990 --> 01:36:15,600
nice dog beautiful temperament we loved

2540
01:36:19,270 --> 01:36:16,000
her

2541
01:36:21,030 --> 01:36:19,280
and i'd

2542
01:36:25,189 --> 01:36:21,040
say you know good girl pet her on top of

2543
01:36:26,790 --> 01:36:25,199
the head and um

2544
01:36:30,070 --> 01:36:26,800
she'd look up at me with those big brown

2545
01:36:33,750 --> 01:36:30,080
eyes and in those eyes i could see

2546
01:36:36,629 --> 01:36:33,760
you know loyalty and trust

2547
01:36:37,750 --> 01:36:36,639
and love and then she's looking in my

2548
01:36:40,629 --> 01:36:37,760
eyes too

2549
01:36:41,990 --> 01:36:40,639
and i'm sure i'm radiating you know love

2550
01:36:45,430 --> 01:36:42,000
back to her

2551
01:36:46,870 --> 01:36:45,440
but in that in that instant we each knew

2552
01:36:51,030 --> 01:36:46,880
our respective

2553
01:36:52,709 --> 01:36:51,040
uh roles she knew that i was the alpha

2554
01:36:54,390 --> 01:36:52,719
you know i was the one that brought the

2555
01:36:58,310 --> 01:36:54,400
food i was the one that brought

2556
01:37:00,709 --> 01:36:58,320
the gave her attention um

2557
01:37:03,430 --> 01:37:00,719
and in this in this situation with this

2558
01:37:07,430 --> 01:37:03,440
being i felt like i was the dog

2559
01:37:10,629 --> 01:37:07,440
i mean i felt i felt inadequate

2560
01:37:12,470 --> 01:37:10,639
on so many levels and i don't know

2561
01:37:13,830 --> 01:37:12,480
you know there's a lot of conjecture

2562
01:37:16,310 --> 01:37:13,840
about where these things come from i

2563
01:37:18,550 --> 01:37:16,320
don't know where they come from

2564
01:37:20,229 --> 01:37:18,560
but i'll say this evolutionary wise i

2565
01:37:23,750 --> 01:37:20,239
think their 500 rungs up the

2566
01:37:26,149 --> 01:37:23,760
evolutionary ladder from where we are

2567
01:37:27,590 --> 01:37:26,159
uh and that was a that was a that was a

2568
01:37:29,189 --> 01:37:27,600
major epiphany you know

2569
01:37:30,790 --> 01:37:29,199
to know that we're not the be all

2570
01:37:33,830 --> 01:37:30,800
end-all

2571
01:37:36,390 --> 01:37:33,840
um i had never given i'm 22 years old i

2572
01:37:38,709 --> 01:37:36,400
had never given a thought to

2573
01:37:41,030 --> 01:37:38,719
you know i mean i saw two flying saucers

2574
01:37:44,229 --> 01:37:41,040
but i'd never really given a thought to

2575
01:37:45,669 --> 01:37:44,239
the fact that whatever's flying those

2576
01:37:50,070 --> 01:37:45,679
things

2577
01:37:53,830 --> 01:37:50,080
is a sentient thinking organism

2578
01:37:54,950 --> 01:37:53,840
maybe you know but the realization that

2579
01:37:56,550 --> 01:37:54,960
there's

2580
01:37:59,270 --> 01:37:56,560
something out there that's much smarter

2581
01:38:02,709 --> 01:38:01,189
yeah that was hard to get through was

2582
01:38:05,830 --> 01:38:02,719
there more there

2583
01:38:07,910 --> 01:38:05,840
during that uh interaction

2584
01:38:09,350 --> 01:38:07,920
i'm sorry was there more there during

2585
01:38:11,910 --> 01:38:09,360
that interaction or that

2586
01:38:14,149 --> 01:38:11,920
locking of ice or what you know besides

2587
01:38:16,229 --> 01:38:14,159
that realization that you had

2588
01:38:17,990 --> 01:38:16,239
no that was about it it was a very brief

2589
01:38:21,030 --> 01:38:18,000
encounter it does this happen over the

2590
01:38:24,310 --> 01:38:21,040
span of just a couple of seconds

2591
01:38:25,189 --> 01:38:24,320
how far away was it for me probably 30

2592
01:38:27,669 --> 01:38:25,199
feet

2593
01:38:29,430 --> 01:38:27,679
did it get 30 people at any given point

2594
01:38:30,709 --> 01:38:29,440
or is it always the little ones that

2595
01:38:31,750 --> 01:38:30,719
came to you

2596
01:38:34,550 --> 01:38:31,760
that was the little ones that were

2597
01:38:37,189 --> 01:38:34,560
running around that was he was the

2598
01:38:39,109 --> 01:38:37,199
i saw three three types of entities i

2599
01:38:42,149 --> 01:38:39,119
saw this guy

2600
01:38:43,990 --> 01:38:42,159
and then a while later um i saw the gray

2601
01:38:47,510 --> 01:38:44,000
guys of course

2602
01:38:51,830 --> 01:38:47,520
and then the gray guys came and got me

2603
01:38:54,070 --> 01:38:51,840
and they took me down a hallway

2604
01:38:54,950 --> 01:38:54,080
and on my left as i go down the hallway

2605
01:38:58,390 --> 01:38:54,960
there's

2606
01:38:59,830 --> 01:38:58,400
just white panels with stainless steel

2607
01:39:02,229 --> 01:38:59,840
beams

2608
01:39:03,830 --> 01:39:02,239
but on the right side there were this

2609
01:39:07,030 --> 01:39:03,840
collection

2610
01:39:08,229 --> 01:39:07,040
of what looked like fish tanks and they

2611
01:39:10,070 --> 01:39:08,239
went from small

2612
01:39:11,910 --> 01:39:10,080
and then they got progressively larger

2613
01:39:13,590 --> 01:39:11,920
as we went down the hall and at the end

2614
01:39:16,870 --> 01:39:13,600
of the hallway

2615
01:39:18,629 --> 01:39:16,880
were these um glass tubes large enough

2616
01:39:21,510 --> 01:39:18,639
for a human being

2617
01:39:22,950 --> 01:39:21,520
and i didn't see anybody in them uh the

2618
01:39:23,350 --> 01:39:22,960
only thing i saw that there were a

2619
01:39:24,870 --> 01:39:23,360
couple

2620
01:39:27,350 --> 01:39:24,880
of these tanks that had like a pink

2621
01:39:30,629 --> 01:39:27,360
fluid in them

2622
01:39:34,149 --> 01:39:30,639
and in one of these tanks um

2623
01:39:35,830 --> 01:39:34,159
about halfway down the hall i saw what

2624
01:39:37,830 --> 01:39:35,840
looked like a puppy

2625
01:39:39,910 --> 01:39:37,840
you know how newborn puppies have folds

2626
01:39:42,390 --> 01:39:39,920
of skin

2627
01:39:44,550 --> 01:39:42,400
this thing had that quality to it it

2628
01:39:46,870 --> 01:39:44,560
looked like a puppy to me

2629
01:39:48,149 --> 01:39:46,880
and it had an umbilical cord that was

2630
01:39:52,629 --> 01:39:48,159
just floating free

2631
01:39:55,910 --> 01:39:52,639
in this pink water and

2632
01:39:58,149 --> 01:39:55,920
i can't react i i can't they're they're

2633
01:40:01,030 --> 01:39:58,159
moving me they both have me by the arms

2634
01:40:01,669 --> 01:40:01,040
and i'm i'm not walking and i'm not

2635
01:40:04,310 --> 01:40:01,679
rolling

2636
01:40:05,590 --> 01:40:04,320
i'm gliding across the floor i can't

2637
01:40:07,830 --> 01:40:05,600
even feel the floor

2638
01:40:09,750 --> 01:40:07,840
and i don't think i was even in contact

2639
01:40:11,430 --> 01:40:09,760
with it they like levitated me a half an

2640
01:40:14,390 --> 01:40:11,440
inch or something and just

2641
01:40:15,109 --> 01:40:14,400
moved me around as they will and uh

2642
01:40:17,189 --> 01:40:15,119
anyway this

2643
01:40:18,149 --> 01:40:17,199
this puppy thing whatever it was opened

2644
01:40:20,310 --> 01:40:18,159
one eye

2645
01:40:21,430 --> 01:40:20,320
and just i just thought i was gonna pass

2646
01:40:25,189 --> 01:40:21,440
out that was just

2647
01:40:26,629 --> 01:40:25,199
frightening and then we got to the end

2648
01:40:30,149 --> 01:40:26,639
of the hall

2649
01:40:31,590 --> 01:40:30,159
and inside there was a room there a dome

2650
01:40:34,870 --> 01:40:31,600
shaped white room

2651
01:40:38,070 --> 01:40:34,880
and there was a typical exam

2652
01:40:39,030 --> 01:40:38,080
examination table and it looked just

2653
01:40:40,870 --> 01:40:39,040
like

2654
01:40:42,310 --> 01:40:40,880
an exam table in a hospital actually you

2655
01:40:43,669 --> 01:40:42,320
know it looked like look at an autopsy

2656
01:40:45,510 --> 01:40:43,679
table it looked like it was made out of

2657
01:40:47,590 --> 01:40:45,520
porcelain

2658
01:40:49,270 --> 01:40:47,600
and one of these little guys took my

2659
01:40:52,790 --> 01:40:49,280
clothing from me

2660
01:40:54,629 --> 01:40:52,800
and somehow they managed to

2661
01:40:57,350 --> 01:40:54,639
put me on top of this thing so i'm

2662
01:41:01,030 --> 01:40:57,360
laying on my back on top of this table

2663
01:41:02,870 --> 01:41:01,040
and i should say that

2664
01:41:04,950 --> 01:41:02,880
this whole thing had a real clinical

2665
01:41:06,790 --> 01:41:04,960
vibe to it it had a medical

2666
01:41:11,109 --> 01:41:06,800
feel to it it didn't feel like i was

2667
01:41:15,990 --> 01:41:13,430
and the being that i saw there that was

2668
01:41:19,189 --> 01:41:16,000
in control of everything

2669
01:41:21,189 --> 01:41:19,199
was this insectoid looking thing and

2670
01:41:23,350 --> 01:41:21,199
it really did look just like a praying

2671
01:41:24,709 --> 01:41:23,360
mantis it looked like a praying mantis

2672
01:41:26,950 --> 01:41:24,719
and you know what's crazy is

2673
01:41:28,310 --> 01:41:26,960
i always imagined this thing wearing a

2674
01:41:30,070 --> 01:41:28,320
white lab coat

2675
01:41:31,750 --> 01:41:30,080
now i really doubt that it was wearing a

2676
01:41:34,390 --> 01:41:31,760
white lab coat

2677
01:41:35,109 --> 01:41:34,400
i think that's probably a screen memory

2678
01:41:41,030 --> 01:41:35,119
um

2679
01:41:43,350 --> 01:41:41,040
it was a bit comforting to have that

2680
01:41:46,709 --> 01:41:43,360
that medical vibe to it

2681
01:41:49,750 --> 01:41:46,719
um a little less scary maybe

2682
01:41:51,669 --> 01:41:49,760
uh and and the table was warm

2683
01:41:53,030 --> 01:41:51,679
and i remember thinking would they warm

2684
01:41:54,390 --> 01:41:53,040
this just for me

2685
01:41:55,750 --> 01:41:54,400
and then i realized now there's probably

2686
01:41:57,109 --> 01:41:55,760
you know i heard that woman screaming

2687
01:41:59,189 --> 01:41:57,119
there's probably been a whole

2688
01:42:01,030 --> 01:41:59,199
parade of people on this table it's warm

2689
01:42:03,109 --> 01:42:01,040
from body heat that's that's the reason

2690
01:42:07,030 --> 01:42:03,119
it's warm

2691
01:42:08,870 --> 01:42:07,040
and the um this insectoid looking thing

2692
01:42:10,790 --> 01:42:08,880
is doing something to my lower back and

2693
01:42:12,149 --> 01:42:10,800
he's assisted by a couple of the little

2694
01:42:15,590 --> 01:42:12,159
grays

2695
01:42:18,709 --> 01:42:15,600
and whatever he was doing hurt a lot

2696
01:42:20,870 --> 01:42:18,719
um and i thought my god why don't these

2697
01:42:23,990 --> 01:42:20,880
guys anesthetize me

2698
01:42:27,430 --> 01:42:24,000
and i'm screaming

2699
01:42:30,870 --> 01:42:27,440
but i'm screaming and i

2700
01:42:32,950 --> 01:42:30,880
and i can't hear myself scream

2701
01:42:36,310 --> 01:42:32,960
and i'm filling my lungs with air and

2702
01:42:38,709 --> 01:42:36,320
i'm screaming as loud as i can

2703
01:42:40,950 --> 01:42:38,719
because i'm i'm scared number one and

2704
01:42:43,030 --> 01:42:40,960
i'm in a lot of pain

2705
01:42:44,390 --> 01:42:43,040
and i'm screaming and it must have

2706
01:42:47,030 --> 01:42:44,400
annoyed

2707
01:42:48,950 --> 01:42:47,040
this thing because it turned it's this

2708
01:42:52,310 --> 01:42:48,960
triangular shaped head

2709
01:42:55,750 --> 01:42:52,320
in my direction and

2710
01:42:55,990 --> 01:42:55,760
we locked eyes and i heard this thing in

2711
01:42:58,709 --> 01:42:56,000
my

2712
01:43:00,229 --> 01:42:58,719
head as crystal clear as any spoken word

2713
01:43:03,910 --> 01:43:00,239
i've ever heard

2714
01:43:07,030 --> 01:43:03,920
with no accent of any kind and he said

2715
01:43:08,470 --> 01:43:07,040
why are you screaming stop screaming you

2716
01:43:10,149 --> 01:43:08,480
know we don't hurt you

2717
01:43:11,590 --> 01:43:10,159
you know we take you back now stop

2718
01:43:13,430 --> 01:43:11,600
screaming

2719
01:43:15,189 --> 01:43:13,440
and he reached over and he touched me in

2720
01:43:20,070 --> 01:43:15,199
the center of the forehead

2721
01:43:22,310 --> 01:43:20,080
with his green digit and i was out

2722
01:43:24,149 --> 01:43:22,320
and that's the last and of my memories

2723
01:43:27,430 --> 01:43:24,159
from being inside this thing

2724
01:43:28,470 --> 01:43:27,440
and the next thing i knew was we woke up

2725
01:43:30,709 --> 01:43:28,480
next to my car

2726
01:43:31,830 --> 01:43:30,719
on the ground and i'm only

2727
01:43:33,189 --> 01:43:31,840
semi-conscious

2728
01:43:35,189 --> 01:43:33,199
and i'm thinking well somebody screwed

2729
01:43:37,750 --> 01:43:35,199
up they should have put us back into ten

2730
01:43:39,270 --> 01:43:37,760
and i no sooner thought that then these

2731
01:43:40,870 --> 01:43:39,280
little gray guys are there and they

2732
01:43:43,510 --> 01:43:40,880
picked us up and dragged us over and

2733
01:43:45,030 --> 01:43:43,520
just kind of threw us inside the tent

2734
01:43:46,950 --> 01:43:45,040
and then that was how do you remember

2735
01:43:49,590 --> 01:43:46,960
than seeing your friend and he remember

2736
01:43:51,189 --> 01:43:49,600
telling you that they're still there

2737
01:43:52,629 --> 01:43:51,199
well no what happened is they threw us

2738
01:43:55,189 --> 01:43:52,639
back inside the tent i think we were

2739
01:43:58,629 --> 01:43:55,199
both unconscious again

2740
01:44:00,790 --> 01:43:58,639
um i don't recall if the if the

2741
01:44:02,870 --> 01:44:00,800
the triangle was 30 feet over our heads

2742
01:44:04,310 --> 01:44:02,880
or 3000 feet over our heads because i

2743
01:44:08,070 --> 01:44:04,320
wasn't

2744
01:44:12,310 --> 01:44:08,080
aware what was going on

2745
01:44:15,350 --> 01:44:12,320
so i went back to sleep and uh

2746
01:44:15,830 --> 01:44:15,360
then sometime later and i have no way of

2747
01:44:18,550 --> 01:44:15,840
knowing

2748
01:44:21,189 --> 01:44:18,560
how much time later but sometime later i

2749
01:44:22,790 --> 01:44:21,199
woke up with the flashing lights

2750
01:44:27,830 --> 01:44:22,800
and that's where the thing makes makes

2751
01:44:31,510 --> 01:44:29,750
well terry that's very interesting very

2752
01:44:38,149 --> 01:44:31,520
um

2753
01:44:41,750 --> 01:44:38,159
definitely something to to ponder about

2754
01:44:44,310 --> 01:44:41,760
throughout your lifetime i mean i guess

2755
01:44:46,390 --> 01:44:44,320
especially if you had these you know

2756
01:44:48,310 --> 01:44:46,400
psychological and physical effects

2757
01:44:50,070 --> 01:44:48,320
and then having to deal with them for

2758
01:44:53,109 --> 01:44:50,080
for such a long time

2759
01:44:54,310 --> 01:44:53,119
and so what um were there any other

2760
01:44:56,390 --> 01:44:54,320
experiences beyond

2761
01:44:57,910 --> 01:44:56,400
that one that had occurred to you again

2762
01:45:00,470 --> 01:44:57,920
or that you maybe thought

2763
01:45:01,590 --> 01:45:00,480
it still continues or was that was that

2764
01:45:04,950 --> 01:45:01,600
pretty much the

2765
01:45:05,750 --> 01:45:04,960
only vivid thing you remember no i i've

2766
01:45:09,189 --> 01:45:05,760
had

2767
01:45:10,950 --> 01:45:09,199
continued experiences actually i

2768
01:45:12,229 --> 01:45:10,960
you know what i noticed was every time i

2769
01:45:15,430 --> 01:45:12,239
had contact with

2770
01:45:15,750 --> 01:45:15,440
non-human entities i had this uptick in

2771
01:45:18,229 --> 01:45:15,760
my

2772
01:45:20,709 --> 01:45:18,239
intuition i wouldn't say i was psychic

2773
01:45:23,510 --> 01:45:20,719
but i'd say i was

2774
01:45:25,910 --> 01:45:23,520
i had some insight that i didn't have

2775
01:45:30,950 --> 01:45:29,189
we had my wife and i had some almost

2776
01:45:35,030 --> 01:45:30,960
like poltergeist

2777
01:45:38,070 --> 01:45:35,040
activity in our house for instance

2778
01:45:42,470 --> 01:45:38,080
you know we've been married 47 years and

2779
01:45:46,149 --> 01:45:44,229
our tv will turn on sometimes in the

2780
01:45:49,350 --> 01:45:46,159
middle of the night

2781
01:45:51,990 --> 01:45:49,360
you know once or twice a year uh

2782
01:45:53,430 --> 01:45:52,000
but since this event in 1977 we we know

2783
01:45:54,790 --> 01:45:53,440
that that sometimes happens

2784
01:45:56,550 --> 01:45:54,800
and it's happened with dozens of

2785
01:46:00,070 --> 01:45:56,560
televisions and

2786
01:46:02,149 --> 01:46:00,080
every different kinds of locations uh

2787
01:46:04,470 --> 01:46:02,159
and we'll be we'll be sound asleep and

2788
01:46:05,910 --> 01:46:04,480
you know it it doesn't scare us anymore

2789
01:46:07,990 --> 01:46:05,920
you know we stopped being afraid of that

2790
01:46:10,709 --> 01:46:08,000
after about the 1990s you know

2791
01:46:12,390 --> 01:46:10,719
it was you know we get up one of us will

2792
01:46:13,590 --> 01:46:12,400
get up and go grab the remote and turn

2793
01:46:16,709 --> 01:46:13,600
it off and then i i

2794
01:46:20,070 --> 01:46:16,719
i always say out loud knock it off

2795
01:46:24,149 --> 01:46:20,080
um i don't know why but i just do

2796
01:46:27,510 --> 01:46:24,159
um and in 1987

2797
01:46:30,709 --> 01:46:27,520
um my wife had her one and only

2798
01:46:34,550 --> 01:46:30,719
event her only encounter

2799
01:46:38,310 --> 01:46:34,560
um in 1987

2800
01:46:41,510 --> 01:46:38,320
she woke up and i wasn't in the bed and

2801
01:46:43,189 --> 01:46:41,520
she said that uh she reached over for me

2802
01:46:44,470 --> 01:46:43,199
i wasn't there the light wasn't on in

2803
01:46:47,109 --> 01:46:44,480
the bathroom

2804
01:46:49,030 --> 01:46:47,119
and at the foot of the bed silhouetted

2805
01:46:51,990 --> 01:46:49,040
against the window

2806
01:46:55,669 --> 01:46:52,000
she saw the outline of what she thought

2807
01:46:58,790 --> 01:46:55,679
to be a very petite woman you know

2808
01:47:01,910 --> 01:46:58,800
some five foot or less

2809
01:47:03,910 --> 01:47:01,920
wearing like a robe or something and

2810
01:47:06,629 --> 01:47:03,920
she said that this woman spoke to her

2811
01:47:08,790 --> 01:47:06,639
but her lips never moved

2812
01:47:09,990 --> 01:47:08,800
and she heard her and she said

2813
01:47:14,950 --> 01:47:10,000
everything's fine

2814
01:47:18,709 --> 01:47:16,870
and she told me about that the next day

2815
01:47:21,990 --> 01:47:18,719
curiously the next day

2816
01:47:23,350 --> 01:47:22,000
um that that following day i went out

2817
01:47:25,430 --> 01:47:23,360
for an early morning it was a sunday i

2818
01:47:26,149 --> 01:47:25,440
went out for an early morning motorcycle

2819
01:47:28,070 --> 01:47:26,159
ride it was

2820
01:47:29,910 --> 01:47:28,080
autumn in michigan it was nice you know

2821
01:47:31,750 --> 01:47:29,920
great motorcycle weather

2822
01:47:34,070 --> 01:47:31,760
so i'd go for you know a couple hour

2823
01:47:35,590 --> 01:47:34,080
ride just to clear my head and have some

2824
01:47:37,590 --> 01:47:35,600
time to myself

2825
01:47:39,990 --> 01:47:37,600
and then i do that in the morning get

2826
01:47:41,910 --> 01:47:40,000
home by 10 a.m

2827
01:47:43,750 --> 01:47:41,920
and then make make pancakes for everyone

2828
01:47:47,350 --> 01:47:43,760
kind of a tradition right

2829
01:47:48,629 --> 01:47:47,360
so i went on my motorcycle ride and when

2830
01:47:52,149 --> 01:47:48,639
i

2831
01:47:55,270 --> 01:47:52,159
was on the stretcher road

2832
01:47:55,830 --> 01:47:55,280
paved road and it's a a route that i'd

2833
01:47:58,790 --> 01:47:55,840
taken

2834
01:48:01,910 --> 01:47:58,800
many times before and it was on this

2835
01:48:04,310 --> 01:48:01,920
farmland in the middle of nowhere

2836
01:48:05,430 --> 01:48:04,320
and i was throttling back from about 75

2837
01:48:08,470 --> 01:48:05,440
to about 60

2838
01:48:09,590 --> 01:48:08,480
because i had a curve coming up and i

2839
01:48:11,510 --> 01:48:09,600
blinked

2840
01:48:14,550 --> 01:48:11,520
and i'm suddenly on this gravel road

2841
01:48:16,830 --> 01:48:14,560
doing 30 miles an hour

2842
01:48:18,950 --> 01:48:16,840
and i i thought man am i that

2843
01:48:20,550 --> 01:48:18,960
absent-minded

2844
01:48:22,629 --> 01:48:20,560
so i stopped because i wouldn't take my

2845
01:48:24,550 --> 01:48:22,639
motorcycle and gravel i it's just

2846
01:48:25,750 --> 01:48:24,560
it's not good for the bike and it's not

2847
01:48:28,709 --> 01:48:25,760
and it's dangerous

2848
01:48:29,990 --> 01:48:28,719
so i i thought man i got to pay

2849
01:48:31,750 --> 01:48:30,000
attention you know

2850
01:48:33,430 --> 01:48:31,760
so i turned the bike around and went

2851
01:48:35,109 --> 01:48:33,440
back the way that i came

2852
01:48:37,990 --> 01:48:35,119
and sure enough a mile down the road i

2853
01:48:41,270 --> 01:48:38,000
was back on pavement

2854
01:48:43,830 --> 01:48:41,280
and i got home and my wife is in tears

2855
01:48:46,149 --> 01:48:43,840
and she's like where have you been i was

2856
01:48:48,390 --> 01:48:46,159
just gonna call the state police i

2857
01:48:49,830 --> 01:48:48,400
and i'm like what are you talking about

2858
01:48:51,510 --> 01:48:49,840
and i could tell because i could hear

2859
01:48:53,669 --> 01:48:51,520
nickelodeon i could

2860
01:48:55,109 --> 01:48:53,679
i could hear the cartoon show that my

2861
01:48:58,149 --> 01:48:55,119
kids were watching

2862
01:49:00,870 --> 01:48:58,159
that it wasn't 10 a.m and

2863
01:49:01,750 --> 01:49:00,880
i had on this like leather gauntlet and

2864
01:49:03,510 --> 01:49:01,760
a leather

2865
01:49:04,870 --> 01:49:03,520
you know because it was cool out so i

2866
01:49:08,310 --> 01:49:04,880
couldn't see my watch

2867
01:49:11,430 --> 01:49:08,320
and there's no clock on my bike so

2868
01:49:13,430 --> 01:49:11,440
i looked at the clock and it was noon so

2869
01:49:16,709 --> 01:49:13,440
i'm two hours late

2870
01:49:17,910 --> 01:49:16,719
and i'm never late i mean i'm if i'm

2871
01:49:20,229 --> 01:49:17,920
anything i'm punctual

2872
01:49:21,589 --> 01:49:20,239
you know i i say i'm going to be there

2873
01:49:24,629 --> 01:49:21,599
i'll be there on time unless

2874
01:49:26,470 --> 01:49:24,639
something dramatic happens so days

2875
01:49:29,270 --> 01:49:26,480
before cell phones my wife was worried

2876
01:49:32,149 --> 01:49:29,280
to death but i lost two hours

2877
01:49:33,109 --> 01:49:32,159
on that motorcycle ride so terry what do

2878
01:49:35,350 --> 01:49:33,119
you make of

2879
01:49:36,390 --> 01:49:35,360
out of all this i mean other than

2880
01:49:39,510 --> 01:49:36,400
recalling

2881
01:49:41,510 --> 01:49:39,520
gather

2882
01:49:43,669 --> 01:49:41,520
some kind of rhyme or reason or what was

2883
01:49:45,510 --> 01:49:43,679
happening

2884
01:49:48,310 --> 01:49:45,520
you know every everyone asked me that

2885
01:49:50,470 --> 01:49:48,320
and i i regret to say that i honestly

2886
01:49:53,030 --> 01:49:50,480
uh i don't know anything more than what

2887
01:49:55,910 --> 01:49:53,040
i experience

2888
01:49:56,709 --> 01:49:55,920
um you know i i could make assumptions

2889
01:50:00,070 --> 01:49:56,719
all day long

2890
01:50:01,669 --> 01:50:00,080
but that'd be just conjecture uh

2891
01:50:04,790 --> 01:50:01,679
i i really i don't have a clue what

2892
01:50:07,189 --> 01:50:04,800
their agenda is except i do know this

2893
01:50:08,470 --> 01:50:07,199
that i'm not alone that i think they

2894
01:50:10,070 --> 01:50:08,480
take and they tag

2895
01:50:11,669 --> 01:50:10,080
a lot of people the same way that you

2896
01:50:14,310 --> 01:50:11,679
know we might tag an elephant on the

2897
01:50:16,390 --> 01:50:14,320
serengeti plain in africa and

2898
01:50:18,390 --> 01:50:16,400
wire him or her up to something and

2899
01:50:20,950 --> 01:50:18,400
monitor their life

2900
01:50:22,870 --> 01:50:20,960
um and that's the only thing i can think

2901
01:50:26,149 --> 01:50:22,880
of and that's an assumption too

2902
01:50:28,310 --> 01:50:26,159
but um i've talked to lots of people in

2903
01:50:32,229 --> 01:50:28,320
these 1600 people that sent me

2904
01:50:33,750 --> 01:50:32,239
emailed me and sent me their stories

2905
01:50:35,510 --> 01:50:33,760
there's a thread of commonality that

2906
01:50:39,830 --> 01:50:35,520
runs through all of them

2907
01:50:41,430 --> 01:50:39,840
and uh especially people that told me

2908
01:50:43,030 --> 01:50:41,440
that they had this strange

2909
01:50:44,950 --> 01:50:43,040
vivid dream that they could remember

2910
01:50:46,229 --> 01:50:44,960
from age four five or six

2911
01:50:47,510 --> 01:50:46,239
and there's a whole lot of people that

2912
01:50:49,510 --> 01:50:47,520
do that they say you know i had this

2913
01:50:51,189 --> 01:50:49,520
weirdest dream

2914
01:50:52,870 --> 01:50:51,199
and i asked them i said well you know

2915
01:50:54,709 --> 01:50:52,880
what did you get for christmas that year

2916
01:50:56,790 --> 01:50:54,719
you know who was at your birthday party

2917
01:50:58,709 --> 01:50:56,800
where'd your family go on vacation they

2918
01:51:01,270 --> 01:50:58,719
can't remember any of that

2919
01:51:03,030 --> 01:51:01,280
but this stupid dream that they had at

2920
01:51:04,870 --> 01:51:03,040
that early age

2921
01:51:07,109 --> 01:51:04,880
and it may just be nonsense but they

2922
01:51:07,990 --> 01:51:07,119
remember it and it's as vivid as it

2923
01:51:10,709 --> 01:51:08,000
happened

2924
01:51:11,510 --> 01:51:10,719
the night before and those are the

2925
01:51:13,270 --> 01:51:11,520
people

2926
01:51:15,109 --> 01:51:13,280
that tend to have experiences throughout

2927
01:51:19,189 --> 01:51:15,119
the rest of their life

2928
01:51:22,229 --> 01:51:19,199
so there there's some commonality there

2929
01:51:22,790 --> 01:51:22,239
and i i got letters from people just

2930
01:51:25,510 --> 01:51:22,800
like

2931
01:51:26,310 --> 01:51:25,520
toby and i that you know friends long

2932
01:51:28,390 --> 01:51:26,320
time friends

2933
01:51:30,310 --> 01:51:28,400
witness something and then they're no

2934
01:51:31,830 --> 01:51:30,320
longer friends

2935
01:51:35,510 --> 01:51:31,840
family members four or five family

2936
01:51:37,270 --> 01:51:35,520
members will see something and

2937
01:51:38,790 --> 01:51:37,280
they won't talk about it and it's not

2938
01:51:41,990 --> 01:51:38,800
discussed and

2939
01:51:42,709 --> 01:51:42,000
this one guy told me that he was with

2940
01:51:45,109 --> 01:51:42,719
his family

2941
01:51:46,790 --> 01:51:45,119
and they they were in a parking lot of a

2942
01:51:49,189 --> 01:51:46,800
hotel on a vacation

2943
01:51:50,550 --> 01:51:49,199
and they saw a cigar-shaped thing fly

2944
01:51:54,470 --> 01:51:50,560
right over them

2945
01:51:57,350 --> 01:51:54,480
and um they were like wow look at that

2946
01:51:59,830 --> 01:51:57,360
and afterwards it was like you know

2947
01:52:02,229 --> 01:51:59,840
nobody really talked about it

2948
01:52:04,229 --> 01:52:02,239
and this guy said yeah you know 30 years

2949
01:52:05,830 --> 01:52:04,239
after the fact

2950
01:52:07,830 --> 01:52:05,840
somebody brought it up at thanksgiving

2951
01:52:09,189 --> 01:52:07,840
dinner does anybody remember that thing

2952
01:52:11,510 --> 01:52:09,199
we saw

2953
01:52:12,550 --> 01:52:11,520
and uh he said everybody was immediately

2954
01:52:14,870 --> 01:52:12,560
uncomfortable

2955
01:52:16,229 --> 01:52:14,880
you know nobody wanted to talk about it

2956
01:52:18,629 --> 01:52:16,239
well terry dennison

2957
01:52:20,310 --> 01:52:18,639
that is an incredible experience and i'm

2958
01:52:21,990 --> 01:52:20,320
very happy that you shared it with me

2959
01:52:23,030 --> 01:52:22,000
today and obviously everyone else

2960
01:52:27,109 --> 01:52:23,040
watching

2961
01:52:28,629 --> 01:52:27,119
um i was wondering if you have any

2962
01:52:30,470 --> 01:52:28,639
final thoughts that you would like to

2963
01:52:31,990 --> 01:52:30,480
end with and then i would like to talk

2964
01:52:34,550 --> 01:52:32,000
to you about

2965
01:52:36,229 --> 01:52:34,560
your books and what were and books and

2966
01:52:40,790 --> 01:52:36,239
website where everybody could go and

2967
01:52:45,350 --> 01:52:43,830
my final thought is is that

2968
01:52:48,629 --> 01:52:45,360
i want to make clear that i'm not trying

2969
01:52:50,870 --> 01:52:48,639
to convince anyone of anything

2970
01:52:51,990 --> 01:52:50,880
that's not my job my job is to tell the

2971
01:52:56,070 --> 01:52:52,000
truth

2972
01:52:59,510 --> 01:52:56,080
and let people make up their minds

2973
01:53:02,310 --> 01:52:59,520
but things are changing in this country

2974
01:53:03,910 --> 01:53:02,320
and i think had i published this book

2975
01:53:06,070 --> 01:53:03,920
you know five years earlier

2976
01:53:08,229 --> 01:53:06,080
in 2013 it wouldn't have been nearly as

2977
01:53:09,510 --> 01:53:08,239
popular

2978
01:53:11,669 --> 01:53:09,520
and i think that's because there's a

2979
01:53:14,390 --> 01:53:11,679
real interest in this stuff now

2980
01:53:16,310 --> 01:53:14,400
and i think that i think 2021 is going

2981
01:53:19,030 --> 01:53:16,320
to be an eventful year

2982
01:53:20,550 --> 01:53:19,040
we'll see um but i do want people to

2983
01:53:22,390 --> 01:53:20,560
know that this stuff is real

2984
01:53:24,870 --> 01:53:22,400
you know don't scoff at it don't dismiss

2985
01:53:25,589 --> 01:53:24,880
it as uh comic book stuff because it's

2986
01:53:28,870 --> 01:53:25,599
not it's

2987
01:53:30,950 --> 01:53:28,880
it's real and to my books

2988
01:53:33,669 --> 01:53:30,960
yeah if you could please uh give us your

2989
01:53:39,109 --> 01:53:33,679
titles and the ones you have

2990
01:53:41,830 --> 01:53:39,119
yes uh it's incident at devil's den

2991
01:53:43,990 --> 01:53:41,840
and devil's then the reckoning incident

2992
01:53:45,270 --> 01:53:44,000
at devil's den i published in march of

2993
01:53:48,070 --> 01:53:45,280
2018

2994
01:53:49,990 --> 01:53:48,080
and it's available in kindle or a

2995
01:53:51,589 --> 01:53:50,000
paperback book that has some photographs

2996
01:53:53,669 --> 01:53:51,599
and drawings in it

2997
01:53:54,870 --> 01:53:53,679
and it's also available in an audio book

2998
01:53:58,149 --> 01:53:54,880
that i did on my own

2999
01:53:59,830 --> 01:53:58,159
with my own voice and

3000
01:54:01,350 --> 01:53:59,840
because i wanted to do it my own voice

3001
01:54:04,229 --> 01:54:01,360
you know i didn't want to do a voice

3002
01:54:07,030 --> 01:54:04,239
artist i wanted to be mine

3003
01:54:08,470 --> 01:54:07,040
and then the second book really kind of

3004
01:54:10,229 --> 01:54:08,480
answers a lot of questions that were

3005
01:54:13,030 --> 01:54:10,239
left over from the first book

3006
01:54:14,070 --> 01:54:13,040
and also in the back of that second book

3007
01:54:16,629 --> 01:54:14,080
the reckoning

3008
01:54:19,109 --> 01:54:16,639
i've got uh 30 stories that i shared

3009
01:54:22,550 --> 01:54:19,119
that that people shared with me

3010
01:54:25,189 --> 01:54:22,560
um about their experiences and i think

3011
01:54:27,350 --> 01:54:25,199
that makes for an interesting read

3012
01:54:29,750 --> 01:54:27,360
so it's devil's den incident at devil's

3013
01:54:32,950 --> 01:54:29,760
den or devil's den the reckoning

3014
01:54:35,990 --> 01:54:32,960
both are only available on amazon and i

3015
01:54:39,669 --> 01:54:36,000
do have a

3016
01:54:42,470 --> 01:54:39,679
maintained i'm afraid but

3017
01:54:44,070 --> 01:54:42,480
it's just terry lovelace.com but if you

3018
01:54:45,030 --> 01:54:44,080
go there there's some interesting images

3019
01:54:47,270 --> 01:54:45,040
you could see

3020
01:54:49,270 --> 01:54:47,280
well terry thank you thank you very much

3021
01:54:51,830 --> 01:54:49,280
again i really appreciate you being on

3022
01:54:55,589 --> 01:54:51,840
and i'm glad we're able to work this out

3023
01:54:58,229 --> 01:54:55,599
and everyone else watching i hope

3024
01:55:00,629 --> 01:54:58,239
you check out terry's website and check

3025
01:55:02,790 --> 01:55:00,639
out his books i'm going to have all the

3026
01:55:04,390 --> 01:55:02,800
descriptions or the links in the

3027
01:55:06,790 --> 01:55:04,400
description box below

3028
01:55:08,310 --> 01:55:06,800
so you have easy access to just simply

3029
01:55:10,470 --> 01:55:08,320
click on it and

3030
01:55:12,310 --> 01:55:10,480
get the information you need so terry

3031
01:55:15,030 --> 01:55:12,320
again thank you very much

3032
01:55:17,350 --> 01:55:15,040
i i really appreciate it and i hope

3033
01:55:19,030 --> 01:55:17,360
maybe we can do this again sometime

3034
01:55:21,350 --> 01:55:19,040
absolutely i'd love to thank you for

3035
01:55:23,830 --> 01:55:21,360
your time i appreciate it

3036
01:55:25,030 --> 01:55:23,840
great thank you everyone else watching